The Senedd met in the Chamber and by video-conference at 13:30 with the Llywydd (Elin Jones) in the Chair.

Statement by the Llywydd

Welcome all to this afternoon's Plenary session. Before we begin, I want to set out a few points. This meeting will be held in a hybrid format, with some Members in the Senedd Chamber and others joining by video-conference. All Members participating in Senedd proceedings, wherever they may be, will be treated equally. A Plenary meeting held using video-conference, in accordance with the Standing Orders of the Welsh Parliament, constitutes Senedd proceedings for the purposes of the Government of Wales Act 2006. Some of the provisions of Standing Order 34 will apply for today's Plenary meeting, and these are set out on your agenda. I'd like to remind Members that Standing Orders relating to order in Plenary meetings apply to this meeting, and apply equally to Members in the Chamber as to those joining virtually.

1. Questions to the First Minister

The first item this afternoon is questions to the First Minister, and the first question is from Peter Fox.

Supporting Vulnerable People

Peter Fox AS: 1. How will the Welsh Government support vulnerable people over the winter months? OQ57008

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, households are under unprecedented financial pressure resulting from the pandemic, our exit from the European Union, the rising cost of living and damaging cuts to welfare supported by the UK Government. We are tackling the inequalities that can lead to poverty while helping people to maximise incomes and build financial resilience.

Peter Fox AS: Thank you, First Minister, for that answer. I'd like to welcome the work that the Welsh Government is doing to support vulnerable people, and I particularly want to pay tribute to our charities and other third sector organisations that are doing some fantastic work to help our communities.
As you will know, First Minister, the UK Government has recently announced a package of support worth £500 million to help people through the pandemic, as well as the winter months. This money will be provided to councils in England by October. Because of this, Wales will receive an additional £25 million. Can you confirm how this money will be used to support families across Wales and whether councils will directly receive this funding so that they can ensure that help is received by those who need it most? Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I agree with what Peter Fox said about the importance of voluntary and third sector organisations that have done so much to help families and communities over the recent pandemic period. But let's be clear: the UK Government is taking £300 million out of the pockets of some of the poorest families in Wales and is offering £25 million in return. It's absolutely no bargain at all for those vulnerable families and the support that they will need over this winter.
Now, we have already provided over £25 million in additional investment in our discretionary assistance fund, a fund abandoned by the Conservative Party in England, where there's no recourse to such a nationally run, rules-based scheme. We will look to see how we can use the £25 million to the very best effect, supporting the range of organisations that make a difference to people's lives, while being absolutely clear sighted about the fact that to lose £300 million and to be offered £25 million in compensation is no deal at all.

Delyth Jewell AC: First Minister, loneliness has been a significant issue for thousands of people during the pandemic, and, as we enter the winter months, more people could feel even more isolated from friends and family. When people are lonely, they can be at greater risk of isolating themselves from services as well, and that can, in turn, be made worse if there are already barriers to accessing those services, like long waiting lists. I know the Red Cross has drawn attention to how people suffering from loneliness can need tailored support when they're waiting for treatment, support that isn't just about their physical ailment but about coping with the process of waiting, especially if that is prolonging the time before they can interact with friends and family more easily.So, First Minister, what support is in place, or could be put in place, please, to help people on long waiting lists to cope with the isolation that that might bring them, as well as, of course, the impact on their physical health?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Delyth Jewell for that important point. She will knew that some analysts say that loneliness should be added to the five giants that Beveridge set out at the start of the welfare state as one of the great social policy challenges of our time. I thank her for what she said about the importance of the Red Cross. She will know that, over last winter, the Welsh Government funded a series of actions by the Red Cross itself to assist in returning people to their own homes when they were discharged—sometimes after a brief period just visiting an A&E department; sometimes after a stay in hospital—precisely to make sure that those people who are lonely and isolated had another human being alongside them when they returned to their own homes, and were helped to settle in and make sure they had everything that they needed. Can I commend as well the work of the Older People's Commissioner for Wales in this area? I know my colleague Julie Morgan has been working closely with the commissioner and her office to put services in place to combat loneliness amongst old people. And sometimes this is a very simple set of arrangements, in the field that Peter Fox pointed to, of the voluntary and the third sector—just a simple phone call to somebody who doesn't hear another human voice from one day to the next, and just takes an interest in how they are doing and what they are going through, can make a real difference to people. And there are many, many volunteers now, in all parts of Wales, who take part in those simple but effective measures that can make a difference to loneliness.

Sarah Murphy AS: First Minister, in my constituency of Bridgend, I have been asking residents about their experiences of contacting primary care. The feedback has ranged from 'very good' to people who felt that they have waited too long. I am concerned that this could particularly impact vulnerable people over the winter months. So, how can Welsh Government ensure that our GP surgeries have the best technology so that people can make appointments and have a consistent service across Bridgend?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, I thank Sarah Murphy for that point. As primary care has quite rightly relied on technological ways of providing advice and treatment outcomes to people, so the need to make sure that those technological platforms are effective for people is even more important than it was before. As part of our access arrangement with the General Practitioners CommitteeWales, we provided millions of pounds of fresh investment to assist GP practices in making sure that their telephone systems, for example, were fit for today's society. I know the picture is mixed, in the way that the Member for Bridgend has mentioned. In the end, as she will know, these are private contractors who make their own arrangements for telephony services. We work with them, though, and we work with GPC Wales, including by additional funding, to try to make the performance of the whole system as good as it is for the best. And I know, from the work that she has done in her own constituency, which she shared with me, that she's come across some very good examples of where people feel that the service they get from their own surgery meets their needs very well. Now we need the rest to be in the same position.

Social Care Staff

Carolyn Thomas AS: 2. What steps is the Welsh Government taking to deliver a fair deal for social care staff? OQ57009

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Carolyn Thomas, Llywydd, for that question. Last year, we convened the social care fair work forum, to look at how the terms and conditions of the workforce can be improved. We are committed to paying social care workers the real living wage in this Senedd term and are working with partners to take this forward.

Carolyn Thomas AS: Thank you for that answer, First Minister. I welcome the Welsh Labour Government's commitment to creating a stronger and better-paid workforce, and in particular the decision that care workers should be paid the real living wage and that this will be delivered during the current Senedd. I have been contacted by residents working in the sector who love their job, but the last few years have understandably taken a toll. One constituent in particular explained that, last year, she had worked Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, Boxing Day, New Year's Eve and New Year's Day with no enhancement of pay. Can you reassure these residents that this Welsh Government is fully committed to improving working conditions, as well as pay, for those working in the social care sector in Wales, so that they can continue to provide the exemplary care they are relied upon for and that they really enjoy doing? Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I think Carolyn Thomas makes a very important point. We are committed to the real living wage in the social care sector and to funding it. But the challenge of recruiting and retaining the skilled workforce in social care is more than simply a pay issue. It does, quite definitely, depend upon decent working terms and conditions being offered to people who do this vitally important work. Now, back in 2017, the Senedd legislated to deal with some of the most egregious examples of where terms and conditions were not being observed, including—some Members will be familiar with this—what's called the 'clipping' practice, and we legislated to put regulations around the practice of zero-hours contracts in the system. And, indeed, over the pandemic, the Welsh Government has funded proper sick pay for social care workers because we knew that anything up to 80 per cent of employers did not provide occupational sick pay in this sector.
Now, the social care fair work forum is looking at the wider package of reforms that are needed if people in this sector are to be properly valued and retained. And we know that in a very, very diverse workforce there are some employers who do absolutely the right thing by their employees, and we know that there are those who continue, for example, to ask their employees to pay for the costs of their own uniforms, to pay for the costs of their own DBS checks. And in a sector where we have to work harder to make sure that we're able to make those jobs attractive to people, there still are practices that do not support that sector-wide requirement. So, our ambition is to work with the best employers, and there are many of them, in the sector, and then to persuade the rest of the employers in social care that, alongside the money the Welsh Government will invest on paying the real living wage, they have to do more to make sure that the terms and conditions under which people are employed continue to attract people into this vital work.

Darren Millar AC: First Minister, one of the things that has been welcomed by my party is the social care financial payment—the bonus payment—which, of course, many people are receiving in their pay packets this month. But those bonus payments must get through to everybody who is part of that social care workforce, who's been working on the front line during the pandemic, and that includes advocacy workers who are not employed directly by local authorities. Unfortunately, I've been informed by Dewis—the Dewis Centre for Independent Living, which has offices in my constituency, in Colwyn Bay, provides advocacy services to people with mental health problems and disabilities across the whole of Conwy and Denbighshire—that its advocates are not eligible for the bonus payment, while people in neighbouring local authorities who are advocates but work for the local authority are receiving these payments. That, to me, doesn't seem like a very level playing field. Can I ask, First Minister, will you look into this in order that those people who have been doing valuable work, going into people's homes at very difficult times during the pandemic, do have the opportunity to benefit from these bonus payments in recognition of their work?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, the Welsh Government was very pleased to be able to provide a payment of £500 early in the pandemic, and £735 later in the pandemic—£735 because we failed to persuade the UK Government to allow that payment to be made without it being subject to tax and national insurance contributions. Sixty-four thousand workers in the sector have benefited from those payments. I am, of course, willing to look into any anomaly, and I'll take up the point that the Member has made specifically, while endorsing the point he originally made about the recognition that those payments were designed to give to people who do these jobs for us here in Wales.FootnoteLink

Information further to Plenary

Peredur Owen Griffiths AS: When I raised the issue of reduced day-care centre provision in Caerphilly County Borough Council for disabled adults and the implications this has for clients, their families and staff, you referred the matter to Caerphilly County Borough Council. Well, it may be a coincidence, but the Labour administration there decided to take a step back and consult properly on the matter. The old Welsh idiom of taro'r post i'r pared glywed springs to mind. Youwill also be pleased to hear that my colleague Delyth Jewell and I met with the council leader and the cabinet member for social services on this matter yesterday. During that meeting, it was stressed by them that the recruitment of social care staff is difficult and will continue to be so until there is parity between their wages and NHS staff. Can you accelerate your plans for fairer pay for social care workers in light of household budgets being squeezed and winter fuel prices increasing?

Mark Drakeford AC: I certainly agree that people who work in the sector will feel the impact of the failures of the UK Government to contain the rises in energy prices, in food prices, and to have had a workable plan for the way in which the United Kingdom has withdrawn from the European Union. The Welsh Government led a successful recruitment campaign for social care workers in August and September, and I've seen the encouraging results of that campaign, encouraging enough for us to want to use the campaign again at the end of this month and into the autumn and winter to try to do everything we can to bring the many benefits that people who work in the sector feel from the important work that they do. We want to roll out a real living wage, but we will wait for the advice of the social care fair work forum in doing that, because we need to be confident that the money that the public purse will provide will make its way directly into the pay packets of those who it is intended to advantage.

Questions Without Notice from the Party Leaders

Questions now from the party leaders. On behalf of the Conservatives, Paul Davies.

Paul Davies AC: Diolch, Llywydd. First Minister, last Sunday was World Mental Health Day, and before I go on to ask my questions, I'm sure that you and everyone in this Chamber will join me in sending our very best wishes to our colleague Andrew R.T. Davies as he takes some time now to focus on his own health.
I appreciate that the Welsh Government has provided some additional funding to reprioritise mental health in light of the COVID-19 pandemic. However, the fact remains that some people have been without face-to-face appointments for several months now, and some have been unable to access specialist support. I appreciate that there will be a statement later today on the 'Together For Mental Health' delivery plan, but can you tell us what targeted action the Welsh Government is now taking to ensure that those who need support and assistance can access services wherever they live in Wales?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Paul Davies for that question, and of course I very much associate myself with what he said in sending our very best wishes on behalf of the Welsh Government and the Labour Party to the leader of the opposition. I hope to see him back in his place in the Chamber as swiftly as he feels able to do that.
The general point that Paul Davies raises is an important one: it was World Mental Health Day, as he said, at the weekend. Mental health remains the single largest budget line in the whole of the NHS in Wales, and our health boards generally overspend the amount of money that is allocated to them for that purpose. What we tried to do during the pandemic was to strengthen those no-referral services, those primary and preventative services that people can get to without having to go through a gatekeeper in the first place, and to get help when they first feel the need to do so. We're particularly focused on that with young people, as the Member will know, in our increased investment in school counselling, in the work that we've done with the youth service to make sure workers there are as prepared as they can be to respond to the needs of young people, and in our commitment to the whole-school approach.
The demand for mental health services has risen significantly during the pandemic and the ability to provide those services face to face has to take into account the clinical conditions in which the service operates. But I believe that throughout Wales, there are very dedicated and determined people who work in the service trying to do exactly what Paul Davies has suggested.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, as you will be aware, as well as struggling to access mental health services, there are also people across Wales who are really struggling to access their GP, as mentioned earlieron in this session. The pandemic has exposed the fact that there are not enough doctors and staff in primary care. Whilst I understand that there has been recruitment activity taking place, that's of little comfort to those patients waiting day in, day out to book an appointment to see their GP. I accept what you said earlier, that the picture is mixed, but many are left waiting for up to an hour or even longer on the phone to speak to someone, and when they finally get through they are often told there are no available appointments, and to call back the following day.
We know that there has been a reduction in the number of GPs; according to the Welsh Government's own data, between 2018 and 2020, there has been a reduction in the number of GPs per 10,000 of population in three out of seven of our health boards—in Betsi Cadwaladr, Powys and Aneurin Bevan health boards. So, First Minister, with the population numbers in those areas growing over the same period, what assessment have you made of the impact the reduction of GPs in those areas has had on patient care?

Mark Drakeford AC: The assessment that the Welsh Government makes is that the future of primary care cannot depend on GPs alone. The nature of the GP population is changing. The sorts of contracts that people emerging into the world of primary care wish to take up are changing, and we have to change with it. We have to change with it primarily by expanding the range of professional voices who are able to provide primary care services. A focus exclusively on GPs will not give us the sustainable future for primary care that we need here in Wales.
GPs remain fundamental to that primary care team—leading it, responsible for clinical standards, making sure that they see those people who only a GP can see. But at the same time, they will oversee broader teams involving physiotherapists, pharmacists, advanced practice nurses and paramedic professionals, all of whom are able to provide a clinically effective service to people who need a primary care contact. That is the way in which we will find a future for primary care that meets the needs of the Welsh population and that, through that mix of professionals who will be at the front line, can make sure that the right sort of help is available to the patient far quicker than if we were simply to be relying on the model that has served us well up until now, but that is reaching the end of its exclusive usefulness.

Paul Davies AC: First Minister, there is a serious issue here for patients trying to get access to their GPs. Mair Hopkin from the Royal College of General Practitioners has said that the crisis in GP surgeries actually predated COVID, with a lot of patients finding it difficult to get an appointment before the pandemic, and having to wait several weeks for an appointment. We've heard from Dr Phil White, chairman of the BMA's Welsh GP committee—he's said that problems were developing before COVID, with more GPs being lost to early retirement. And doctors themselves have highlighted the impact that this has on the whole system—doctors like Dr Oelmann, a GP at Clark Avenue surgery in Cwmbran, who has made it clear that it's not just GPs, it's right through the system. There are backlogs in secondary care, the ambulance service, social care. He's right to say that everything is interlinked, and that none of it can be viewed in isolation. It goes around in a circle and becomes more and more difficult for staff, and indeed for patients. Therefore, First Minister, do you accept the view of the Royal College of GPs that the crisis in GP surgeries predates COVID? And, given the impact the pandemic has had, what urgent steps will your Government take to specifically address the development of primary care in this parliamentary term? Given that one of your Government aims set out in the 'A Healthier Wales' review was to improve the experience and quality of care for individuals and families, how will you achieve this if the number of GPs continues to decline, and our population continues to grow?

Mark Drakeford AC: I agree with what the Member says about the pressures that there are on the system, and they are in all parts of the system. Many GPs have chosen to take early retirement because of the changes in their pension arrangements that his Government at Westminster introduced, which meant that it was simply financially not sensible for them to continue in the jobs that they had done. We have urged the UK Government many times to remove the perverse incentives that have led to some people taking themselves out of the workforce earlier than they otherwise would have done.
The future of GP services—GPs in that narrow sense—lies in our ability to recruit more people into the profession, and to train here in Wales. He'll be well aware of the very healthy figures that we have achieved in recent times in reaching and overreaching the targets that we had set for GP trainees in Wales. I think in an answer to a question last week I explained how the number of GP trainees in north Wales was to be raised again next year. GPs by themselves are not the whole answer to primary care, in the way that I've described already, Llywydd, and what we will do as a Government is to invest in that wider set of professionals, changing the nature of primary care, bringing it into line with the way in which people who work in it see their futures as professional workers here in Wales, providing them with the twenty-first century surgeries that we are committed to in our manifesto, and continuing to celebrate the efforts that day in, day out see thousands and thousands of people successfully treated by primary care clinicians in Wales every single day.

Plaid Cymru leader, Adam Price.

Adam Price AC: Thank you, Llywydd. Can I at the outset on behalf of my party also send our messages of support to Andrew R.T. Davies? Many people will have taken courage and inspiration from him speaking openly about the challenges that he's facing with his own mental and emotional well-being, something, of course, that many of us will face at different times in our life.
First Minister, MPs at Westminster have today described the UK's pandemic response as one of the worst public health failures in UK history. I agree with that damning assessment. First Minister, do you?

Mark Drakeford AC: I've not had an opportunity to read the report published today. I've seen newspaper accounts of it. It is clearly a report that merits proper consideration, and I plan to do that. I'm not in a position to endorse or deny any verdicts that Members of Parliament came to until I've had an opportunity to study what they've had to say in more detail than I've had an opportunity to do so far.

Adam Price AC: First Minister, among the report's many findings is its conclusion that the decision by both the UK and the Welsh Government to abandon community testing against World Health Organization advice on 12 March 2020 was a fatal error that cost many lives. Notwithstanding the fact that you haven't had the opportunity to study the report, do you acknowledge that general criticism? Do you accept that it would have been better during that early phase of the pandemic to have followed your own policy in Wales, independent of Westminster, in relation to this, as you did indeed do on so many other matters in the later stages with considerable success?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Adam Price for that. Llywydd, I've been asked the question many times, 'Were there things that you would have done differently had you known then what you know now?' I think that that question is particularly pertinent to those very early stages of coronavirus, when so many things that we have learned since we simply weren't aware of in the way that we are now, whether that is community testing or whether it's the example I've most often given, which is: had we understood the extent to which coronavirus was already seeded through the United Kingdom, and had we understood the rapidity with which this virus would spread to other parts and to other communities, we would have acted earlier to introduce some of the measures that were only introduced in the second half of March. But we didn't know those things then. We were following the advice that we had at the time. As our knowledge grew and as we were able to make our own independent decisions because we had the knowledge base that allowed us to do so, as Adam Price says, the Welsh Government has not hesitated to take our own decisions where we thought that that was in the best interests of Wales. But at each point, I think it is fair for people to think about: what did we know then, what do we know now, and in the light of circumstances at the time, did we make the best decisions that we were able to?

Adam Price AC: I, of course, understand the point about hindsight, but I suppose the crux of the matter here was that the WHO had the foresight at the time to emphasise the importance of community testing. Indeed, I remember our party criticising the Welsh Government's decision to abandon community testing at the time, on that basis, because there was advice there that actually has been borne out in terms of its importance. In the entire 147-page report, ostensibly about the UK as a whole, Wales is mentioned I think just nine times, and the majority of those references are in the footnotes. Doesn't that make the case for Wales to have its own inquiry, because without it, if we delegate to Westminster, the experiences of the bereaved families that you met last week, First Minister, will simply be forgotten, and the lessons for Wales that should be learnt will be lost?

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, as I've said, I've not had a proper opportunity to study the report, but even from the newspaper account that I have seen, it seemed to me to strengthen the argument for the Welsh experience to be properly investigated within the wider UK context. This report, as I understand it, was never meant to be about the experience in Scotland, Wales, or Northern Ireland, but it does set out very clearly the decisions that were made at a UK level, and without understanding that, you cannot understand the way in which decisions were made here in Wales. But let me repeat, because I know the Member has heard me say this before, that I have been very clear with the UK Government that the Welsh Government's decisions, and those taken by other relevant bodies in Wales, have to be scrutinised within a UK-wide inquiry in a full and comprehensive manner. Wales cannot and must not be an afterthought or a footnote in any UK-wide inquiry. I set out, as he knows, in my letter to Michael Gove on 10 September, a series of tests that we would apply to give us the confidence, or otherwise, that the Welsh experience was being given the attention within a UK inquiry that it needs and deserves, so that those families get the best possible answers.
Now, there are a number of tests coming up for the UK Government in this regard. I am yet to receive a reply to that letter, and I will look very carefully at it when it arrives. I'm hoping to have a face-to-face meeting with the Prime Minister within the next coming days, and I plan to use that opportunity to make these points directly to him. He has promised bereaved families that the lead of the inquiry—the judge, as I hope it will be—to oversee the inquiry, will be appointed before Christmas. I would expect Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland to be properly involved in that appointment—not to read about it in a press release. So, there are a number of ways in which, over the weeks ahead, the UK Government can demonstrate that this is to be an inquiry that sets out the actions that were taken at a UK level, therefore providing the proper context to understand what happened in Wales, but has a focus on the Welsh experience, which will give confidence to people who will look to it that the actions of the Welsh Government and of others have been fully and properly scrutinised and the answers to questions that people have properly addressed in the process.

Cancer Treatment

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: 3. Will the First Minister make a statement on cancer treatment in north Wales? OQ57026

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, cancer services in north Wales continue to recover from the impact of the pandemic. In July this year, for example, 374 patients started definitive cancer treatment, and that is 114 more than in the July of the previous year.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Thank you, First Minister, and I'm only sorry that I had to raise this with you today, but such are my concerns. First Minister, NHS diagnostic and therapy service waiting times for July this year show aneleven-fold increase in the number of people waiting over eight weeks for one of seven key tests used to diagnose cancer, and startlingly, one third of patients in the Betsi Cadwaladr region do not start their first definitive treatment in the month within 62 days of first being suspected of cancer. I've been really shocked recently to hear of some of my constituents and patients of Betsi Cadwaladr University Health Board learning that they are being informed, on some occasions, of a life-changing, devastating cancer diagnosis simply by the telephone rather than a personable face-to-face discussion, and this has caused a lot of further anxiety to my constituents. Even more troubling, I know of one constituent who, following a stage 4 terminal cancer diagnosis, was not even advised of the treatment options available at the time of this diagnosis, instead, just saying simply that a referral will be made at some stage going forward to Wrexham or Liverpool. That was until I made several representations on their behalf.

Can you come to a question now, Janet Finch-Saunders?

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: Yes, of course.
Alongside delayed diagnoses, there is a concerning gap between diagnosis and finding that treatment. So, what steps, First Minister, will you take to ensure that you close that gap between a devastating cancer diagnosis and the treatment options available to those affected? Diolch, Llywydd.

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank the Member for that question. As you understand, I'm not in a position ever to comment on individual encounters between clinicians and their patients. I think there are two general points that the Member makes that I'd like to address. She's right that diagnostic services are under huge pressure. We worried on the floor of the Senedd during the pandemic about the delays in people coming forward to make their conditions known to clinicians. Thankfully, we've had some impact on that and more people are coming forward, but, of course, when they come forward in those numbers, it inevitably puts diagnostic systems under pressure. She will know that the Betsi Cadwaladr health board has recently approved a business case to pilot three rapid diagnostic centres—one in each of its three main hospitals—and that they are in the business now of recruiting the specialist nurses and the radiology time that they will need to get those diagnostic centres up and running early, as they hope, in the new year. So, I hope that that will make a difference to some of the individuals that Janet Finch-Saunders has mentioned this afternoon.
On the issue of how clinicians communicate their diagnoses to people, I don't think it's possible, in the Chamber of the Senedd, to make general rules about how that is best done. It needs to be done sensitively, of course, and it needs to be done with the best interests of the patient at the heart of it. And there will be some patients, won't there, for whom it is better for them that they have a conversation with their clinician while they're in their own homes, rather than asking them, ill as they are, to make inconvenient journeys to quite-far-away destinations where there are a lot of other very ill people, to be told what the clinician is able to tell them in a conversation in their own homes. Now, that won't suit everybody, I completely understand that, but nor do I think that it is probably right to say that everybody will prefer to make that journey to wait to see somebody to be told what they could've been told in other circumstances. It's for the clinician, with the patient, to make a judgment about the best way in which that can be done. And we have to have some trust in our clinicians that they go about that business—they're in the business of treating people with cancer, after all, that is what they've dedicated their professional lives to doing, and that they do it with that sensitivity in mind.

The Treherbert Railway Line

Buffy Williams MS: 4. Will the First Minister provide an update on the works undertaken on the Treherbert line in Rhondda as part of the south Wales metro? OQ57029

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Buffy Williams for that, Llywydd.The electrification and signalling work required to deliver four services per hour on new, greener trains on the Treherbert line has now started and is scheduled to be completed in mid-2023.

Buffy Williams MS: Thank you, First Minister. The metro will transform the way that we travel across south Wales, and I couldn't be happier that Rhondda will benefit from the £0.25 billion investment. We've had some real problems on the Treherbert line in the past, so a more modern, more green and more reliable service in the future will really benefit residents in Rhondda Fawr.
One of the only regions in south Wales currently excluded from the plans is Rhondda Fach. Residents in Maerdy face either a two-hour bus journey to Cardiff or the hassle of buying multiple tickets, paying over the odds for the bus and train. We have had train buses linking the Fach and Fawr in the past. What steps will the Welsh Government take to ensure that residents of Rhondda Fach benefit from the south Wales metro?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank the Member for what she said about the impact of the work that the Welsh Government is funding on residents of Treherbert. One of the things, Llywydd, that we have certainly learnt about the metro system is that it has lifted the aspirations of many other communities wanting now to share in the investment that is already going on. I had a series of conversations with my colleague Ken Skates about the way in which we could capitalise on the excitement about the investment that the Welsh Government is making in the south Wales metro, the north Wales metro, the metro plans around Swansea, to bring other communities into that picture in the future.
I know that Transport for Wales is working on ideas to improve connectivity for Rhondda Fach, into the investment that's already being planned and delivered for people who live in Treherbert. I think I know that the—. I was told when I visited, anyway, the Taff's Well depot, where I went to see for myself some of the new rolling stock that will be deployed in south Wales, that the Member for the Rhondda was due to make a visit there as well. So, I know that she will have seen for herself the improvements that that will bring.
Of course, the Welsh Government is committed to making sure that as many communities as possible are able to benefit from what is an investment, after all, of over £700 million. I don't like to use the word 'transformation' too often, Llywydd, because I think that it is often overused. But, I genuinely think that in this case, the services will transform what is available to people in those communities.

Question 6 [OQ56994] was withdrawn. Therefore, question 6—Russell George.

The Future Energy Grid

Russell George AC: 6. What progress has the Welsh Government made in developing a strategic plan for the future energy grid to 2050? OQ56989

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, Wales needs an integrated, long-term plan for the gas and electricity networks. This is essential to achieve our climate change ambitions. The tender for an independent partner to lead this work was published on 29 September, and a contractor is expected to be appointed in November.

Russell George AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Thank you, First Minister, for your reply. I can understand that there is a need for a planned approach to developing grid networks, and taking a strategic approach. I saw the press release from the Welsh Government last month in regard to taking a joint approach, and the Welsh Government taking a lead in terms of bringing relevant parties together to access and gather evidence, and to consider scenarios and advice. What I'm concerned about, First Minister, is that all parties are being brought together in this regard. You will be aware of the long-term history in my own constituency in regard to the mid-Wales connection project.
I think that what is important, when you do bring parties together, is that you bring all partners, including tourism groups, businesses that might be affected, the Campaign for the Protection of Rural Wales and a number of other parties. It seems like, to date—and I hope that you will tell me that I'm wrong—the only parties involved are renewable energy companies themselves, network distributors and the National Grid. Will there be an opportunity for these other stakeholders that I have mentioned to also be involved in this piece of work that your Government is leading on?

Mark Drakeford AC: I thank Russell George for that. I thank him for the question, which I think is one of the very important questions on the order paper today. Wales has suffered from the way in which the current system has developed. He will know that the way that grid developments in Wales have happened is on a bid basis. Bids are made from gas and electricity grid companies to Ofgem. These bids compete with one another for investment, and Ofgem has operated on the basis that they will only agree enhanced grid connections when the demand is already there and demonstrated. Now, the purpose of the Welsh Government's initiative is to bring those companies, those six companies, around the table with the Welsh Government and with Ofgem to plan the future. And that will have to, I think, persuade Ofgem to fund grid connections where there is anticipated demand as well as already demonstrated demand.
Now, I take the point that Russell George has made about the importance of taking a wider set of interests with us on this journey, and I think there’s a real appetite in Wales from communities and individuals to be part of the way in which we make our energy system fit for the climate change emergency that we face. I’ve been following closely the Garn Fach development that is proposed for the Member’s own constituency. I saw recently that over 400 people had replied to the pre-consultation process and that support for the Garn Fach proposals outnumbered those who had reservations about it by more than 2:1. I think that tells me that views are changing in Wales, and that people have a higher understanding today of the obligation that we all have to play our part in meeting the challenge that is already on our doorstep, and that we have to be able to do that in all parts of Wales, and there is a job of work, as the Member has said, to make sure that all voices are part of that conversation, while the conversation itself is firmly concentrated on making sure that we all do everything we can to deal with the difficulties we know this planet is already experiencing.

The Retrofitting of Socially Rented Homes

Jenny Rathbone AC: 7. How many socially rented homes does the Welsh Government expect to have been retrofitted by the end of 2022 as part of the programme to reduce carbon emissions from all Welsh housing? OQ57028

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, we have committed almost £700 million [Correction: £70 million]FootnoteLink into our optimised retrofit programme in the last 18 months to explore how best to decarbonise homes in Wales. By the end of 2022, this investment is forecast to have reduced emissions from around 5,000 social homes.

Clarification from the First Minister

Jenny Rathbone AC: Thank you very much, First Minister. Last week, I took advantage of the Open Doors programme to visit some of the building sites in my constituency and observe the fantastic construction work going on. Given the urgency of creating the green skills jobs we need to retrofit our inadequately insulated homes, particularly from the cold winds of Tory cuts and our country’s failure overall to generate sufficient renewable energy to avoid us being involved in this scramble for scarce gas, I was really surprised that a lot of the skilled constructors I met didn’t always have an apprentice working alongside them. Given that I know you have the ambition to retrofit all these socially rented homes, I wondered what the Welsh Government can do to fast forward this programme of decarbonising all our homes if we don’t have the skills that we need to do the job.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I think Jenny Rathbone makes a series of really important points. Just as the operation of the grid has been left to the marketplace, so meeting the energy needs of the United Kingdom has been largely navigated in the same way by the current UK Government. It wasn't true even of previous Conservative Governments, who, at the start of the last decade, provided the feed-in tariffs that have led to the growth in solar and wind renewable energies in Wales. Now, the approach of the Welsh Government is very different. We look to a planned approach. We look to the UK Government to make sure that there is genuine investment in marine technologies, for example, so that we can make sure that we are not left reliant upon marketplace availability of scarce commodities, with the prices that we now are seeing being charged for gas.
The Member makes another really important point, Llywydd, about the supply chain and about the skills involved in it. If my colleague Julie James had been answering this question, you would have heard her passion for the way in which the retrofit programme can create the jobs that are needed for the future. Now, the apprenticeship programme in Wales has been affected during the pandemic. It has been harder to be able to supply those practical experiences for young people that allow them to get the qualifications that they need. But, alongside the rest of the economy, there is strong recovery in all of that, and we certainly will be working closely with the sector to make sure that, as we move to build houses for the future that do not need retrofitting—and that's really important—but also to work to retrofit social care homes, private-rented properties and privately owned properties as well, there is the skilled and competent workforce there equipped to do so to take advantage of those opportunities and to help us all in the challenge of addressing climate change.

Universal Credit

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: 8. What discussions has the First Minister had with the UK Government regarding halting the cut to universal credit, as requested by leaders of devolved Governments? OQ56987

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, the UK Government has chosen to ignore all the evidence provided by the Welsh Government on the severe financial hardship caused by cutting that £20 a week payment. It is simply indefensible to take money away from the poorest people in Wales just as they are facing a serious cost-of-living crisis.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: I thank the First Minister for that response, and I genuinely am desperately worried for the autumn and the winter for my constituents, some of whom rely on universal credit to top up their wages, some of whom are out of work, but, for all of them, this makes the difference—it's make or break—between going into debt and poverty and possibly homelessness.
I would urge the First Minister to continue his discussions with the UK Government to seek to find additional funding to put in across the UK into these disadvantaged communities and vulnerable families to see them through this autumn and winter and spring, which will be long and hard. But I would also ask the First Minister: what more can we do in Wales, not only in terms of support, which he's mentioned previously, but in terms of supporting advice—debt advice, homelessness advice, crisis advice and support throughout Wales—so that we can at least be there when, inevitably, people are going to face these desperate times across this winter?

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, I thank Huw Irranca-Davies for that question. He has vividly put the predicament that will face so many families here in Wales. The Joseph Rowntree Foundation recently estimated that fuel prices alone will result in those families—. A family of two children managing on £20,000 a year, fuel prices alone will place a £3 a week extra demand on their budgets. And then when you take into account all the other cost pressures that we know are there in the economy, that will be £8 a week. That's over £700 a year, at a time when they are losing £1,000 from the very modest incomes that they have available to them. Of course we will continue to press the UK Government. The £20 cut in universal credit is the single largest cut in welfare for over 70 years. You have to go back to the 1930s to find a Government that was prepared to load the burden of addressing the financial circumstances of the nation onto the shoulders of those least able to bear it in this way.
Now, as well as the other things we are doing, I fully agree with what Huw Irranca-Davies said, Llywydd, about the need to make sure that as many as people as possible in Wales are getting the help that is already there in the system, and far, far too many families in Wales miss out on the help that is there. We carried out a welfare benefits take-up campaign back in March of this year; it has resulted in hundreds of thousands of pounds in additional benefit being claimed by Welsh families, and we're going to repeat that benefit take-up campaign at the end of this month and through the rest of the winter months. You've then got to make sure, as Huw Irranca-Davies said, that the facilities are there to deal with the extra demand that will be generated, and I'm very pleased to say that the Welsh Government is going to fund 35 full-time equivalent new welfare benefit advisers for advice Cymru so that the person power is there, when the campaign results in more people coming forward, to give them the advice that they will need. All those people will have been recruited by the end of this month, and they will be there to do exactly what Huw Irranca-Davies said, Llywydd: to make sure that we do more to help people to get the help that is still there, even as that really important strand in assistance is being taken away from them.

And finally, question 9—Joel James.

The Horse-racing Industry

Joel James MS: 9. Will the First Minister make a statement on the horse-racing industry in Wales? OQ56993

Mark Drakeford AC: Llywydd, the Welsh Government recognises the economic value of the three race tracks in Wales, from Bangor-on-Dee in the north to Ffos Las in the south-west and Chepstow in the south-east of Wales, and the many people who work in this industry.

Joel James MS: First Minister, the week beginning 13 September was National Racehorse Week across the UK, which is designed to showcase many of the fascinating aspects of horse racing, and open the doors of many of the horse trainers to show the high standards of love, care and attention that race horses receive. In Scotland and England, specific organisations have been set up to promote horse racing and to highlight the benefits that it has to their economy and tourism industry. In Scotland, Scottish Racing promotes and supports its five racecourses, assisting in the development of a sustainable horse-racing industry and its success globally. The organisation promotes all sectors of the industry and plays an integral part in delivering long-term prosperity and sustainability to the sport in Scotland. Sadly, in Wales, we have no such organisation, yet we have some of the finest trainers in Britain. Tim Vaughan, for example, who owns and operates a racing stable in the Vale of Glamorgan, has trained horses that have won many prestigious races, including the Scottish Grand National, and I believe that Wales deserves the same level of representation as other nations in the UK. I am confident that such an organisation promoting Welsh horse racing would undoubtedly benefit our economy and industry here in Wales. I am further confident that there would cross-party support for such an organisation. With this in mind, could the First Minister commit to meeting with myself and the necessary representatives of the industry to explore the possibility of setting up a specific Welsh organisation? Thank you.

Mark Drakeford AC: Well, Llywydd, I'll think carefully about what the Member has said this afternoon. The Welsh Government has provided over £1 million of funding to the industry from the spectator sport survival fund during the pandemic, and I've enjoyed many good days going horse racing myself, so I recognise what he says about its attractiveness to people, and particularly what he said about the standards of the industry here in Wales. He will understand that Government has to put its energies where we think the need is most urgent. I and my Ministers have been focused this week, Llywydd, on the steel industry and the urgent need to provide assistance to it, with its high-energy bills, to sustain that industry, with the thousands and thousands of people who rely upon it here in Wales. So, while I will, of course, think carefully about what the Member has said, in the end, Government has to decide where its energies and investments can most fruitfully be invested, and there are choices to be made in that.

Members in the Chamber, First Minister, are fascinated to know whether you were actually riding the horses that were being raced, or whether you were just watching. [Laughter.] We'll think of it as a spectator sport for you, but you can correct us if we were wrong.

2. Business Statement and Announcement

So, item 2, the business statement and announcement. I call on the Trefnydd to make the statement.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Diolch, Llywydd. There are no changes to this week's Plenary business. Draft business for the next three sitting weeks is set out on the business statement and announcement, which can be found amongst the meeting papers available to Members electronically.

Laura Anne Jones AC: Minister, could I call for an urgent statement from the Minister for Education and Welsh Language on our schools' readiness for the implementation of the new curriculum? Alongside the obvious impact the pandemic has had, many schools are currently really struggling with staff absences, and supply teachers are difficult to source at the moment due to the amount of teachers self-isolating and infected with COVID themselves. And this is clearly going to impact on the outcomes of the current Estyn inspections when trying to gauge the readiness of schools for the new curriculum. School meetings have been dominated by discussions on COVID rather than the implementation of this new curriculum. Headteachers and their teams are overstretched and need additional support, so I'd be grateful if the Minister could come to the Chamber to address these issues.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you, Laura. We are well on our way on the journey to making our new curriculum a reality in our schools and other settings across Wales. Of course the pandemic has affected preparations for reform. The recent survey results from the Education Workforce Council, and the Government social research service, show the challenges that obviously we face due to the pandemic. But there does remain a very strong commitment to these reforms throughout the whole of the sector, and I think it's very important that we do have a very clear national structure in place so that the implementation can be supported, and, obviously, it needs to be backed up by strong regional and local support.
The 'Curriculum for Wales: the journey to curriculum roll-out' document, which was published on 22 September, sets out that framework, and I'm sure you've had a chance to look at that, and it's backed up by £7.24 million in funding to support the curriculum development in this financial year.

Delyth Jewell AC: Trefnydd, the Aneurin Bevan University Health Board has introduced significant temporary changes to maternity services because of staff shortages. So, home birthing has been suspended and midwifery-led units in the Royal Gwent, Nevill Hall, Ysbyty Aneurin Bevan and Ysbyty Ystrad Fawr will be temporarily closed, centralising all birthing services at the Grange hospital in Cwmbran. The health board expects that those changes will be in place until 18 October.
I'd like a statement from the Government please to tell us what support is being offered to the health board to ensure that staffing levels won't be affected like this again, particularly as we go into the winter months when COVID-19 is likely, unfortunately, to be more prevalent in our communities. And could that statement please also outline what support the Government could give through the health board to expectant mothers and their families, who will have to make changes to their plans at what is an already anxious time? I'm thinking especially of mothers who have elected to have either home births or local births because of traumatic births in the past. This could have really serious implications for them, so I'd be grateful to know what support could be offered urgently to them and, of course, to all families who will be affected by this.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I know the Minister and her officials are working closely with the health board around this issue. You mentioned that, hopefully, they would only be in place until 18 October, so there will not be time to have a Government statement, but I'm sure if the Minister has anything new that she wishes to inform Members of, she will do a written statement.FootnoteLink

Information further to Plenary

Alun Davies AC: Could I ask for two statements from the Government please? Firstly, on the implications of the Supreme Court decision last week to rule two Scottish Acts to be out of competence. Those Acts contained a number of provisions that we have already enacted in this place, notably on the place of the rights of children in legislation. It appears to me that that has a direct read-across to legislation that is on the Welsh statute book, and I think it's important that we do have a statement from the Counsel General to understand what the Welsh Government believes is the situation with Welsh law as a consequence of this Supreme Court judgment.
And, secondly, could I have a statement from the Government on the current role of legislative consent motions? We're used to legislative consent motions in this place, but normally they tend to refer to quite minor matters that either impact upon legislative competence here or where the Welsh Government is seeking to enact legislation on a relatively minor matter as part of a UK process. It appears to me that in this Senedd there's been an increase in the number of LCMs, and also an increase in not just the quantity of LCMs themselves but in the nature of those LCMs, where there is too much legislation, Welsh legislation, reaching the statute book without proper scrutiny in this place. It is important that this Parliament has the opportunity to scrutinise all legislation that affects Wales within devolved areas before it reaches the statute book. And it is important, I think, that as a Parliament we're able to understand the processes that the Welsh Government intends to put in place to ensure that Welsh legislation does not reach the statute book without any scrutiny at all.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. With regard to your first point around the Supreme Court's decision, I know that the Counsel General and Minister for the Constitution is currently having discussions to understand the implications of that decision.
In relation to LCMs, I think we have seen a significant number—I think we've got about 14 at the moment that the Welsh Government are considering. At the current time, I think there's only probably about seven of them that we could recommend the Senedd grants approval to. And I think it's really important that we work very closely with the UK Government. There is such a huge amount of legislation coming through at the moment, and obviously the Welsh Government can only process, and the Senedd can only scrutinise, so much. But I do think it is really important that Members have that opportunity to scrutinise LCMs as they come through.

Sam Rowlands MS: Trefnydd, I'm sure you'd agree that north Wales continues to have a world-class reputation for delivering exceptional events and being a world-renowned destination. And following on from a point I raised with you before the summer, in regards the UK City of Culture competition, I'm sure you are delighted to see that Wrexham has been shortlisted to be named UK City of Culture 2025, along with seven other candidates across the United Kingdom. And you'll know more than anybody, Trefnydd, the fantastic culture that Wrexham has to offer, including Wrexham Football Club, and the historical Racecourse ground there as well; the Pontcysyllte aqueduct, which has received UNESCO world heritage status; the cultural community centre of Tŷ Pawb; theatres, churches, and many more, which you will be fully aware of. And of course, winning the UK City of Culture would not only have huge benefits for Wrexham, but for all of north Wales, and indeed our nation more broadly, creating jobs, driving investment, delivering long-lasting benefits. I would welcome a Welsh Government statement, outlining their support for Wrexham's bid to secure the UK City of Culture title, and hear how the Welsh Government would work together with local authorities to ensure that Wrexham has the best chance possible to win the UK City of Culture bid 2025.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. Yes, I was very, very pleased to see that my constituency of Wrexham had been shortlisted for UK City of Culture; I think the announcement will be made in May of next year. And certainly, as a Welsh Government, we will be doing all we can to look at how we can support Wrexham, and I know that the Deputy Minister for Arts and Sport, and Chief Whip is currently in discussions. You named many places within the constituency and just outside, in the constituency of Clwyd South—Ken Skates's constituency—that have got that fantastic reputation, but, absolutely, none other than the Racecourse, I quite agree.

Heledd Fychan AS: Trefnydd, I note the written statement that was published today in terms of coal tip safety, with 33 more tips in the highest risk category, which leads to a total of 327. That's caused a great deal of anxiety in those communities that live in the shadow of those tips, so I'd like to ask for a further statement in the Chamber from the Minister for Climate Change to note when the location of these tips will be made known. This is a question that a number of people who live in their shadows have. Also, how have the discussions regarding the funding of this work gone with the UK Government, and will there be a specific campaign to raise awareness of how people can report their concerns about the safety of tips and any changes, more than what is noted in the statement today?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. And as you say, the written statement was issued yesterday, giving us an update on coal tip safety by the Minister for Climate Change. There's a huge amount of work that's gone into this piece of work—partnership working between the Coal Authority, UK Government, local authorities and Welsh Government. And as you say, there have been further coal tips highlighted as having high risk. Local authorities have the data as to where these are, obviously, sited. As you say, it does cause concern. I think it's really important not to cause even more concern to people. You'll be aware the Welsh Government brought forward a helpline—it was obviously in my portfolio in the previous term. The discussions around funding are really important, because this is significant funding. And clearly, it predates devolution—it predates 1999—so therefore, the UK Government really need to up their game in this area and ensure that we have the funding that is absolutely needed to make these coal tips safe.

Jenny Rathbone AC: Given the ongoing disinvestment of the banking industry in our high streets, and, in some circumstances, that we don't even have the lender of last resort in our post offices—certainly some of my communities don't any longer have a post office—I just wondered whether we could have a Welsh Government statement on how we can protect the digitally excluded, who are really not comfortable with a cashless, paperless society, to ensure that they've still got a secure place to keep their savings and that they can still access cash without having to be charged for the privilege.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. We are very concerned, as a Government, at the reduction of banking services right across Wales. We've seen an ever increasing number of bank closures across the country. So, we do continue to use our influence, both with the UK Government and with the banking sector, to ensure that high street banking services are maintained. I don't think it's just the digitally excluded; we all rely on banking services. I think we all need to speak to somebody, don't we, from time to time, but I think you highlighted a specific group that need additional support. We've seen, I think, more banks closing due to the pandemic, where again we've seen cash used less and less, which again has an impact on people who are digitally excluded. And we know that there are increasingly a number of people who are very removed from conventional banking services, and we really don't want to leave anyone behind. We've also seen—I think I mentioned this when I was asked about banking services previously—we've seen a reduction in the number of free-to-use ATMs, while I think we've seen an increase in the ones that charge. So, we are committed to supporting the creation of a community bank for Wales, and, at the current time, we're working with the private sector to develop proposals in line with the regulatory approval process, and I think that would be the most opportune time to have a statement.

Altaf Hussain AS: Recently, I visited the Tennant canal at Aberdulais to meet representatives of its owners and members of the Neath and Tennant Canals Trust to discuss its future, following a fall in the water levels. Many residents are concerned about the future of the canal, its historic infrastructure and role in sustaining wildlife.Whilst there are issues to resolve with NRW and other public bodies, it does remind me of the importance of our canals to our environment, tourism and well-being. Will the Government arrange a debate for us to consider the strategic importance of our canals, please?

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I think you make a very important point about the role that canals play, certainly in relation to biodiversity, and you will be aware it's COP15 this week, which really highlights biodiversity. We do make a range of statements, and I'm sure the Minister will be making one following COP15, where she can cover that.

And, finally, Joyce Watson.

Joyce Watson AC: Diolch, Llywydd. Trefnydd, could we have a statement, and I think the Minister for Social Justice is best placed to speak on it, on the very urgent need to make public sexual harassment a specific criminal offence in England and Wales? I referred to it in my recent topical question to the Minister on women's safety in public places. But, since then, it's become clear that the roadblock to reform is the Prime Minister himself. As well as blocking a new law on harassment, the Prime Minister personally intervened to torpedo attempts to make misogyny a hate crime. It emerged this weekend, however, that Tory peers and MPs plan to defy Johnson and push ahead with attempts to change that law. I know it falls outside this institution's legislative powers, of course, but, just as Boris Johnson's dismissal of misogyny and gender-based harassment sends a dangerous public message, the Welsh Government ought to counter that and do what it can to realise change in the law to protect Welsh women and girls.

The Deputy Presiding Officer (David Rees) took the Chair.

Lesley Griffiths AC: Thank you. I think, whilst I've been on my feet, the Minister for Social Justice has issued a written statement on hate crime. But we've been very clear that the current hate crime regime that we have isn't fit for purpose. It fails to deal with misogyny, and I think that's an absolute major demonstration of what is wrong with the regime. Earlier this year, you may be aware, the UK Government agreed to a pilot, where police would record crimes of violence motivated by a person's sex or gender. I think we need to see a bit of urgent progress on this. I know the UK Government will be considering the recommendations that come from the Law Commission on this, so I would urge the Law Commission, firstly, to expedite the report to the UK Government, and then certainly I would expect the UK Government to bring forward some action around the recommendations, and I know the Minister for Social Justice has written to UK Ministers several times to highlight this.

Thank you, Trefnydd.

3. Statement by the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being: Progress on ‘Together for Mental Health’ Delivery Plan

The next item is a statement by the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being: progress on 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan. I call the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being, Lynne Neagle.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. We are 12 months into delivering our refreshed 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, and I want to provide an update on our progress. The delivery plan was revised in light of the pandemic, realising the need for it to adapt to evolving levels of need. The plan is ambitious, and establishes the absolute need for cross-Government, multi-agency working to deliver on the agreed actions. To assure us and our partners on progress, we have commissioned an evaluation of our 10-year strategy. This will provide an independent, evidence-based assessment of our progress and will inform next steps.
The pandemic has brought into sharper focus the actions in the delivery plan that needed to be accelerated. We have strengthened support for low-level mental health issues in response to the higher levels of anxiety that we have seen. We have expanded our CALL helpline, which supports over a 100 people a day, providing advice, support and often just someone to talk to. For the first time in Wales, we have rolled out online cognitive behavioural therapy. This digital support is overseen by clinicians and has received over 12,000 sign-ups in the first 12 months. It does not need a referral from a health professional, so it can be accessed when it is needed, providing timely access to support, taking pressure off more specialist services.
Health boards are reporting higher acuity and complexity of patient need and an increased demand for non-clinical support for lower level mental health issues. The ministerial delivery and oversight board, which I chair, is critical to understand the latest evidence and operational intelligence to ensure services can meet changing mental health needs. We are transforming the response to crisis care and are on track to establish single points of contact to respond to mental health crisis in all health board areas by April 2022. These will be for anyone to use, regardless of age or circumstance, and will provide individuals with immediate access to signposting, a trained mental health worker or a referral into specialist services. We have also improved mental health conveyance as part of the crisis care pathway, with a pilot run by St John Cymru. This support has already provided transport for over 400 people, with an average response time of one hour. It has the potential to reduce pressure on the police, ambulance service and mental health community staff whilst providing appropriate and compassionate transport for our most vulnerable people.
We have delivered the specialist perinatal mother and baby unit in Tonna, and it is already making a significant difference to new mothers who need this support and who can now access that closer to home. There is more to do, and I'm determined to see an increase in the pace of health boards achieving the Royal College of Psychiatrists standards for both community and in-patient perinatal mental health services. We must ensure that we have specialist mother and baby provision that is easily accessible for mothers from north Wales, and I am determined to see this put in place as soon as possible.
The delivery plan also includes actions on suicide prevention, and we are working with the police, the NHS and Public Health Wales to establish a real-time surveillance system for Wales. This will be hosted by Public Health Wales, and this approach will be crucial to our efforts to prevent suicide but also to ensure a timely and appropriate response for those bereaved by suicide in Wales.
All of these improvements have been supported by an increase in investment of almost £128 million over the past five years into the mental health ring-fenced budget. This year alone, we have provided an additional £42 million, and our programme for government continues our commitment to prioritise investment in mental health.
We know that the workforce are the lifeblood of our NHS services, and workforce pressures are a real challenge to progress. Health Education and Improvement Wales and Social Care Wales are on course to consult on a long-term mental health workforce strategy by the end of this year, as well as securing more immediate solutions to respond to demand.
Specialist mental health services are vitally important for those who need that higher level of support. Our delivery plan highlights actions we are taking to develop a secure in-patient strategy and further support for early intervention in psychosis services. However, specialist provision is only one part of the challenge to provide the right support at the right time in the right place. By taking an early intervention and prevention approach, we can meet this challenge and reduce demand on specialist services.
All Cabinet colleagues have agreed that mental health impacts will be considered and support embedded across Government. Our whole-system approach is a good example of this in practice, where I am working closely with the Minister for Education and the Welsh Language to drive progress. This work, along with the implementation of our NEST framework through regional partnership boards, underpins our longer term, preventative approach.
In employment, we are progressing action around employability as a key protective factor for mental health. We continue to provide advice and support to employers through the Healthy Working Wales programme and we have expanded our in-work and out-of-work health employability programmes as the pandemic has progressed. These will become more important as support like furlough comes to an end.
In housing, we have ensured that mental health is integrated as part of key programmes, including the rapid rehousing through homelessness scheme. Poverty and financial hardship are drivers of poor mental health, and we are integrating our approach to mental health and debt support provision. During the first year of the single advice fund it secured almost £44 million of additional welfare benefits, and this includes supporting people with mental health issues.
In terms of legislation, we have discussed widely with partners and stakeholders the potential benefits to Wales of the proposed reforms of the UK Mental Health Act 1983. I will be writing to the UK Secretary of State for Health to explore whether legislation brought forward to reform the Act should be extended to Wales, with the exception of those proposals where we have existing or more robust safeguards already in place—for instance, for care and treatment planning in Wales. This, of course, would have to be done in a way that respected the devolution settlement and the Sewel convention. It would be subject to the Senedd passing a legislative consent motion.
Welsh Government will also be consulting shortly on new regulations for Wales to support the implementation of the liberty protection safeguards, which will replace the current deprivation of liberty safeguards. These important safeguards will provide a more effective system, putting the person deprived of liberty at the heart of the decision-making process, and will better integrate the LPS into everyday care, support and treatment planning.
I have provided a snapshot of delivery here today. Overall, whilst there remains a significant challenge to services, we are making constructive progress on our 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan. And whilst I am encouraged by this progress, I do not underestimate the ongoing challenge ahead. However, I am committed to driving actions across Government and with stakeholders to improve the mental health and well-being of the nation as part of our wider approach to recover from this very difficult time. Diolch yn fawr.

The Conservative spokesperson, James Evans.

James Evans MS: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Minister, thank you very much for your statement. I want to mention World Mental Health Day and the significance that that day has to raise the profile of those people who are suffering with their mental health. And I want to put on the record my best wishes to my friend and colleague Andrew R.T. Davies, who I hope makes a speedy recovery, and also to my brave colleague Sam Kurtz, who last week opened up about his own struggles with his mental health during lockdown. I hope that, in raising personal struggles, it will help those people who are suffering in silence to seek the help and support that they need.
Minister, the mental health delivery plan has been refreshed, and it's right that the Government focuses on cross-departmental working, which is right to address the mental health problems. It will take all Government departments to step up to the plate to deal with this. You mentioned you've commissioned an evaluation of the 10-year strategy. Can you outline what methodology and scrutiny will be used to ensure that this Senedd can scrutinise that evaluation when it comes forward? You also mentioned that the delivery plan needs to be accelerated, and I totally agree with you on that. We have no time to lose, and the NHS workforce in Wales is a key part of ensuring that that delivery plan is delivered, and delivered at pace. So, Minister, recruitment shortages in the mental health workforce are a challenge. On workforce plans, last week, you said that HEIW was making good progress on longer term workforce plans. So, when do you expect these plans to be published, and, when more staff are recruited, where will you be placing these professionals?
You also mentioned the delivery and oversight board, which you chair, and I think this is a step in the right direction to, as you said, ensure that services can change and meet the mental health needs that come forward. One thing that I think was omitted from the statement was a position on child and adolescent mental health services support for young people. As I've raised previously, detentions of young people have gone up by 666 per cent in under-16s being detained since March, and two thirds of those were defined as female. That's a shocking statistic, and I think this should be immediately looked at to try and resolve this problem. In CAMHS, four out of seven people are reporting less than 50 per cent assessed at local primary mental health support service levels within 28 days. So, can you outline what efforts you and the oversight board are making to investigate these figures further and ensure that the young girls who have passed early intervention get that crisis care that they need?
With that in mind, 24/7 crisis care centres are vitally important so that people have the care and at the right time, as you said. Crisis care is vital to help save people's lives, and also they reduce the pressure on wider services, and I was wondering what more support can be given to deliver those 24/7 crisis care centres.
You mentioned the perinatal mother and baby care unit at Tonna, and I welcome this. However, you have said that there are gaps in north Wales. So, can you just outline what progress you have made to fill the gaps, and not just in north Wales, but across mid and west Wales as well, so we have that provision right across our country?
Minister, you also mentioned the work with the UK Government over the need to update the Mental Health Act, and I welcome this cross-governmental work and I think it's very positive. However, do you think that maybe we should look at having an updated Welsh mental health Act here in Wales, made in Wales, decided by Welsh policy makers, to make sure that we have fantastic mental health services here in Wales? You mentioned the liberty safeguard regulations, and I look forward to seeing that detail coming forward and having wider discussions with you about that.
And finally, Minister, will you outline your top priorities now for improving mental health services in Wales? I think it would be very useful if I could get to judge or appraise the top five or six measures and what you really want to get on top of in this first term of the Senedd. Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you, Minister, for your statement.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you very much, James Evans. There were lots and lots of questions and points there, but, before I start to respond to you, can I just place on record my good wishes to Andrew R.T. Davies for a speedy recovery and to say how helpful I think it is to everyone that he has shown this courage in speaking out, as indeed Sam Kurtz did last week? In doing so, he helps everyone. So, I send him my best wishes for a speedy recovery.
If I can start with the points that James Evans made about our evaluation of the 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan, that has begun already, and we've contracted with people to undertake that evaluation for us in as thorough a way as we can. Possibly there'll be engagement with stakeholders, et cetera, and that work itself is due to be completed by next year—by September 2022. And I think then we'll have to look at what we take from that evaluation, because, obviously, we're going to have to have new plans going forward. And I think, at that point, then, we would want to be engaging with relevant committees and with the Senedd to make sure that we're also listening to the views of everybody here. But it's vitally important that the plan we take forward is one that will work for people who are going to be in receipt of services.
You mentioned workforce pressures. The workforce pressures are very significant indeed and are something that I am focusing a lot of my time and effort on. The plan that will be consulted on by HEIW and Social Care Wales will identify in a very comprehensive way, I hope, where we need to have the different staff. We know that we've had some success with attracting psychiatrists to come and work in Wales, but we've got shortages in other specialities as well. So, that comprehensive piece of work that is being undertaken by HEIW should give us that full picture. That should be completed by the end of this year, and then we'll go out to consultation. But we aren't resting on our laurels in the meantime. HEIW are looking at what immediate steps we can take to fill vacancies in shortage areas. And I have asked officials to look at whether we can pilot a form of psychological assistance—rather than having fully qualified clinical psychologists, that we can look at earlier intervention with psychology assistance—which is being used very effectively in Aneurin Bevan University Health Board. I'm meeting them shortly to discuss what they are doing.
In terms of CAMHS, they continue to be a top priority for me, just as implementing the whole-system reforms of 'Mind over matter' is at the very centre of what I am trying to do. It's why I have come into Government, and I am completely committed to delivering on that. We have seen fluctuations in the average waiting time for children and young people to access specialist CAMHS during the pandemic. Data over the last 12 months shows that the average wait to receive a first appointment for specialist CAMHS is 4.4 weeks, and that ranges from three to six weeks. The latest waiting times data for under-18s primary mental health provisions shows that 83 per cent of young people received their local primary mental health service assessments within eight weeks of referral. We did see a sharp increase in referrals, but thankfully that is now showing signs of levelling off. Nevertheless, we are not complacent, and making sure that children and young people are seen in a timely way is a top priority for me. I meet with the vice-chairs regularly, officials have those regular, ongoing discussions with health boards to drive performance, and where I've had particular concerns about the performance of a health board, I have had a special meeting where I've gone there to discuss their performance and to seek assurances that they are addressing this matter as a question of urgency.
I note your welcome for the 24-hour crisis care provision. I think we are on course to deliver that. It's a big undertaking, a big change, but I am confident that we will be there by the end of this year, and we will be in a position then where people will be able to ring 111 for mental health in Wales. But below that, we're also undertaking an exercise where the delivery unit has been visiting all health boards to discuss the crisis services that operate for children and young people in particular, but across the board. They will be making recommendations about what more we need to do to improve the crisis support beyond that phone line. So, it's very much a major priority for me.
Thank you for your welcome for the joint working on the Mental Health Act. Clearly, it's important that, where we can work with the UK Government in a constructive way, we do that. You asked whether we should have a new law for Wales on mental health. My honest and considered answered is that, no, that is not the challenge that we face at the moment. We know what needs to happen. We've got the Mental Health (Wales) Measure 2010, which was made in Wales by a Conservative Member, Jonathan Morgan, who took that through this Senedd. Our challenge is to ensure that we are delivering across the whole system. So, I don't think that it's about legislation per se, but we are very happy to build on the legislative opportunities that are arising where they present themselves.
Finally, in terms of my priorities, my priority is to ensure that everybody in Wales, but especially children and young people, can get access to timely mental health support when they need it, at the same time as we are shifting the whole system in Wales to one of prevention and early intervention, so that fewer people need to access those specialist services in the first place. So, that is what is driving my work and what is taking up my time. Thank you.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer. If I may send my best wishesto Andrew R.T. Davies. But I want to wish everyone well who is facing similar challenges wherever they may be. The truth is that we are in a very privileged position to do much more than wishing well, using words alone. The Government can take action, all of us can hold the Government to account and be determined not to be satisfied until we have the services in place that the people of Wales need. Because we are facing a crisis. And perhaps what is most frustrating is the slow progress despite how clear the crisis is. It’s a minority who receive treatment at all for mental health issues, and of those who receive treatment, many of them do have to wait too long.
I do welcome certainly the fact that a report has been commissioned by the Deputy Minister to learn more about where the progress is taking place, where the progress isn’t taking place. I will add a question asking for clarity about that work: who will be doing that work? It’s important for us to know, I think, that there is an independent look being taken at this. The Deputy Minister said in her response a moment ago that the work will be completed by, I think, September of next year. Will the report be published by September or will that be the end date of gathering the information? Because I would want to encourage things to move forward as quickly as possible. Also, because of the issue that we know that we have with child and adolescent mental health services, can I have an assurance that that assessment will include what is happening in terms of progress in that support for children and young people specifically?
We’ve had a list from the Deputy Minister today of the different ways, including some new initiatives, that people can access support. Those don’t work for people if they don’t know about them, of course. I think that there are many people who feel that they don’t know where to go to seek support. So, perhaps the Deputy Minister could tell us what work is being done to ensure that there is a strengthening of that signposting that is so vital, so that people who may have a small issue now can receive that timely support that they need to prevent that from becoming a more intensive issue that might need that elevated psychiatric care.
Finally, I turn to data and transparency. Mind Cymru have voiced concerns over years, I have to say, about the work of gathering the data to measure progress against the Government strategy, because the core mental health data—we’ve been waiting for that for a long time. That hasn’t been received yet. We’ve been waiting a long time, as I said, and I think it’s correct to say that the dataset was meant to be ready by December 2014. That timetable wasn’t adhered to, it slipped again and I think that the date that we now have is that it will be available by 2022. So, when? At the beginning of 2022? Will 2022 be achieved at all? Hopefully it will be achieved next year. Does the Deputy Minister accept, truth be told, that we can’t measure the progress and success of the strategy without having the measures and the core data in place?

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you for those questions, Rhun. I absolutely agree that we're in a position in this Chamber where we can take action and not just talk about things, and that is absolutely what I want to do. Can I just correct a mistake that I made about the completion date of the evaluation of the 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan? It's actually April 2022. I was struggling to reach my papers there. So, earlier than I said. I can't see any reason why it wouldn't be ready at that time, and I also can't see any difficulty with making that available. Certainly, with other evaluations that the Welsh Government has commissioned, those have been published and made available on the Welsh Government website.
I should be clear, though, that this is an evaluation of the whole delivery plan, which I've tried to give you a flavour of today, which doesn't just cover direct mental health services—it covers housing, benefits advice, all those things. I wouldn't want you to think that it is the only thing that we are doing to track what's happening in mental health services. As I said in the statement, I chair a ministerial delivery and oversight board, which was actually set up by my predecessor, Eluned Morgan, because we recognised there was a need to have stronger oversight of the whole mental health system in Wales. That meets bimonthly, it's chaired by me, and I have a report on that on every single work stream that is being taken forward on mental health in Wales. Every single work stream has to report what they're doing. They have to highlight any risks, and they have to RAG rate their work. It's a relatively new body, but I feel that it is one that is coming into its own and that will help give us that assurance, as well, of course, as the evaluation across the piece of the delivery plan.
Your referred to CAMHS as well in your comments. Can I also assure you that, in addition to the ministerial delivery and oversight board, we've also got the ministerial task and finish group on the whole-system approach, which is jointly chaired by myself and Jeremy Miles? That used to be the task and finish group on the whole-school approach, but following 'Mind over matter: Two years on', we recognised that although there was a lot of focus on the whole-school approach, we needed to make sure that we didn't take our foot off the pedal on the more specialist services. So, that task and finish group was adapted to cover the whole system that would impact on a child, from school right up to the tier 4 services. I hope that that does give you some assurance that there are a number of mechanisms in place to scrutinise and drive performance in this area.
You mentioned the core data set, and I entirely recognise that it is vital that we have data if we're going to improve services. Before I became a Minister, I was constantly calling for the core data set myself. I don't recognise the date of it having meant to be ready by 2014, although I acknowledge that we haven't made as much progress as we would have liked, and that's partly due to the pandemic. Just to confirm to the Member that this work was relaunched in September as the mental health outcomes and measures board, and this work has been separated into two phases, which are developing an integrated mental health outcomes framework and a communication plan. That work should be completed by March 2022, and then there will be a period of implementation. But also to assure the Member that I entirely recognise where he's coming from on the need for robust data and driving that forward will be a priority for me.

Ken Skates AC: Thank you, Minister, for bringing forward this important statement today. As both an individual Member of the Senedd and also as chair of the cross-party group on mental health, I'd like to pass on my best wishes to Andrew R.T. Davies and say just how impressive his openness, and indeed the openness of Sam Kurtz, was last week. C.S. Lewis once remarked that we read so that we know we are not alone, and there are many, many people who will have read Andrew R.T. Davies's comments last week and felt reassured that they are not alone.
Minister, we went into this COVID pandemic with an intensifying need to both address and prevent mental and emotional illness across our population, and we're emerging from the pandemic with that need even more pressing and intense, particularly for children and young people, as you have identified today. Indeed, Barnardo's produce a UK-wide quarterly practitioner survey, and since April of last year, respondents have consistently ranked the increase in mental health and well-being issues amongst children, young people and families as the No. 1 issue. And of course, in the workplace, we know that presenteeism is now costing businesses more than absenteeism. There's also emerging evidence linking the body's vulnerability to cancer to the combined impact of social isolation and sustained elevated levels of cortisol that comes with many mental illnesses and with stress. And this further demonstrates—

Can the Member ask the question now, please?

Ken Skates AC: It further demonstrates that we do need to tackle mental illness. Now, one question in particular, cross-Government working, and you've alluded to it today, could you elaborate on how you're working with particularly the education and economy departments to tackle mental illness? And can you also identify how you're promoting the online cognitive behavioural therapy resource that has proven so popular to date and will be invaluable for many, many people?

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, Ken. And thank you, too, for the work that you're doing in chairing the cross-party group, which I also very much appreciate. As you've highlighted, that cross-Government working onmental health is absolutely crucial, and there is a huge amount of work going on across Government in this area. I'm working closely with the Minister for education on the delivery of the whole-system approach to children's mental health and I feel that we're making good progress there and we're going to be hearing more about that shortly.
We've also got a range of employment projects that are designed to support people who are at risk of leaving employment because they've got mental health problems, and we've also got a peer support programme that is designed to ensure that some of the people who are furthest from the workplace can get back into employment. But I think it's really important that we don't stop there, and I'm very pleased to say that I've had very positive discussions with colleagues across Government about the need to work together on mental health. I see mental health as everybody's business in Government. We're taking a different approach to the budget this year, where we're having thematic discussions and one of those has been around the need to protect funding in mental health and to ensure that decisions taken in other departments don't cause disadvantage to people with mental health problems. So, I think we're making good progress. I also referred to the housing issues, but there's much more that we can do and I think we're all up for that challenge.
And just to say—I should have said in response to Rhun as well—that we are really upping our activity to promote the tier 0 support that's available. There's been a significantly enhanced presence of the C.A.L.L. helpline and SilverCloud on social media. I know that my predecessor, Eluned Morgan asked health boards to make sure that they were much more open in terms of advertising how everybody can access their services. But, of course, there's always more that we can do. But I'm focused on trying to improve the awareness of the support that is available and there is a lot of support available out there, especially at that tier 0, which we've invested very heavily in.

Altaf Hussain AS: I'm grateful for the opportunity to raise a couple of questions about the progress of the 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan and to explore the key issues for the next plan. I also want to recognise the contribution to this work by those who have lived experiences of mental ill health, for their energy and commitment in providing their advice. My questions are: whilst welcoming the update this afternoon, can the Minister outline exactly how those who have lived experiences of mental ill health have contributed to the mental health strategy and any evaluation of the delivery plan? My second question is: you say in your statement that, by taking an early intervention and prevention approach, we can meet the challenge and reduce demand on specialist services, will the Minister consider the need for mental health A&E services to provide that early intervention? My third and last is: I would like to welcome the work being done on the long-term mental health workforce strategy; can the Minister confirm specifically which gaps in staffing need to be addressed and whether the health boards have the resources to recruit? Thank you.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you very much, Altaf Hussain, for those questions. You are absolutely right: lived experience is absolutely crucial, and if we are going to have effective policies, they have to be co-produced with people with lived experience. We already have the input of people who have mental health issues across the board, really, in the work that we're doing. We have a youth stakeholder group that informs the work in education. We also consult with Young Wales about mental health, and I am going to be attending their workshop on mental health in a few weeks' time.
But, we have also got people with lived experience who are involved in the partnership council, which takes forward a lot of this work across Government as well. But, I'm always open to looking at what more we can do to have lived experience, and one of the areas that I'm particularly interested in is the area of suicide prevention, where I think people with lived experience have got a huge role to play.
You mentioned mental health A&E. I think, really, that we don't want people to be getting to that situation where they are in an emergency. The last place that we want people who are in huge distress to be is A&E, really. So, what we are trying to do is prevent those problems from escalating.
We know from the work that was commissioned previously by the Welsh Government on urgent access to NHS services that many of the problems that people are presenting in crisis with are not mental illnesses. They are problems with debt, with housing, relationships—those everyday problems that we have but that have spiralled out of control. So, our approach is to try and stem those problems and support people earlier, but with a crisis provision there if people really need it.
As I said in response to James Evans, the detailed work on the gaps in the workforce across Wales—. This is a complex issue because, obviously, all health boards are different. They have different populations. That work is being done by HEIW and Social Care Wales, and when they have completed that work and drawn up the plan, then we'll have to look at resources. But, as far as I'm concerned, as Minister, the workforce is a key challenge to delivering the reforms that we want to see. So, I will certainly do everything that I can to assure you that we will find the resources that we need to.

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: Minister, 10 years ago, a constituent of mine saw a decline in mental health, which meant that he had to go for specialist care. He was prescribed anti-depressants and anti-psychotic drugs, and he's been using them since that time. Despite that, he hasn't had a review of that medication since that very early period, over 10 years ago. He went for a review to the local hospital but he was told that he would have to have a referral from a GP. The GP, in turn, said that he couldn't help because he couldn't prescribe or change such medication. So, the patient was in a cycle.
Can you ensure that you put clear guidance in place as to how often anti-psychotic medication should be reviewed, and who can review it, and that patients who are in very vulnerable situations have a clear and simple understanding of the nature of the medicine, how often it will be reviewed, and who will carry out that review, avoiding a situation where a patient is pushed from one part of the health service to another without anyone taking responsibility, and patients being lost in the system?

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you very much for that question, and I'm very sorry to hear that your constituent has had that experience. Clearly, that is something that shouldn't have happened, and if you would like to write to me with the details of the constituent, I will certainly follow that up with the health board. But, I am also very happy to look at the wider issue that you have raised about the need for there to be guidance on timings, et cetera, for reviews of medication. Everybody should have regular medication reviews, whether it is physical or mental health, and that is a serious shortcoming if that hasn't happened.
But, what I would also say as well is that, what you have described—that sort of merry-go-round of services—is what we, as a Government, are committed to ending. It's in our programme for government that there will be no wrong door for people with mental health problems. That applies to adults and children, and that's what we want to see. But, if you'd like to write to me, I'd be very happy to follow up your constituent's situation.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Whilst welcoming this statement, I note that these don’t exist in the ether. If the ambition and the actions are delivered upon in this, they’ll have a real, tangible effect on our constituents, not least those who attended the Bridgend mental health round-table organised by my good friend, Sarah Murphy, and which we co-hosted last week. They raised many of the issues that you’ve referred to, curiously, in this report: referrals; signposting; and continuity of funding, curiously, for some of the wider support organisations on the ground. So, could I simply ask the Minister: what level of confidence do you have that our constituents within the Cwm Taf health area will have that prompt and timely access to early intervention, which is key, but also to acute services? What can she do to monitor progress in the individual health boards, and share that data with us? And will she, as has been said by other Members of the Senedd, engage directly with people with real, lived experience—listen to their experience of whether things are getting better at the speed she wants to see as well, and which our constituents certainly want to see?

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you very much, Huw, and can I thank both you and Sarah for the round-table that you organised? I think things like that are an incredibly valuable opportunity to listen to that lived experience at a local level, and I do really commend you for doing it.
We do have to make sure that what we say in this Chamber becomes reality. I hope that I’ve given a flavour of some of the mechanisms that are there within Government, in terms of the ministerial delivery and oversight board and the other bodies that we’ve got. Also, I meet regularly with vice chairs. I’ve told the regional partnership boards that I am coming around to visit every one of them to discuss how they are taking forward our NEST framework, which is our key early-intervention mechanism for children and young people. But I’m always looking to do more in this area, and I will certainly take away what you’ve said as well about lived experience to check that we're doing absolutely everything we can to make sure that the voices of those with mental health problems are fully heard in the development of our policies.

And finally, Laura Anne Jones.

Laura Anne Jones AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome this statement and delivery plan as mental health can affect anyone, regardless of colour, age or creed, and it’s vital that we tackle this head on and with some urgency. I find it very encouraging, actually, that this Government have appointed you, Lynne, as the Minister for mental health, because I know you’re a long-term campaigner on it, and you listen to people across the Chamber and you act on it. So, I welcome that, and I also welcome your focus on prevention. I think that is absolutely the right thing to do.
I’d also like to take this opportunity, Deputy Presiding Officer, to commend everyone that did talk in the last mental health debate last week. I listened at home because I was ill at home, unfortunately, and couldn’t do my speech, but I found it a really, really good thing and a very powerful debate, actually, and I think it will make some difference going forward. And it’s this openness and honesty that will cement mental health no longer being a taboo subject, won’t it, Minister, and show that mental health issues can affect anyone.
I was going to say to Members in my speech last week—I was going to ask them to raise their hands—

Can I remind Members that it's not a speech? You've got a question to ask. You're going over time.

Laura Anne Jones AC: —if they’ve been affected by mental health or if they know someone who has been affected by mental health and been shocked by who it affected, because it is important that your plan can show that it can affect anyone, anywhere, like with Andrew R.T. Davies, and ensures that help is accessible to everyone, everywhere.
To this end, Minister, I’d like you to look at a Bill that’s going through the current UK Parliament at the moment. It’s ensuring that there’s parity between mental health and physical health, and ensuring that mental health first aid training forms a part of all first aid training within our businesses across the UK. So, can you ensure that that extends to Wales, and that it is happening in Wales? And then I’d also like to say as to your work in hospitals, if I may, just quickly—

You're out of time—[Inaudible.]

Laura Anne Jones AC: —that there's a safe space for adolescent mental health first aid patients in hospitals. Thank you.

Lynne Neagle AC: Thank you, Laura, for those points, and thank you for your kind words, and I'm very keen to work cross-party to deliver this agenda, and I certainly echo your strong points about the contribution everybody's openness has made.
I belive we should have parity between mental and physical health, and that is what I've called for for a long time in this Senedd, and that is very much what I'm trying to drive forward. I'm aware of your interest in mental health first aid. I think that's one of a range of tools that can be used to support people, but, in this context of education, I would say that what we are doing is much more fundamental and radical than that really, and is designed to prevent people needing that mental health first aid. It's about embedding prevention and early intervention at a much earlier stage, really. But I'm very happy to look at the legislation that you've referred to, but please be assured that early intervention and prevention is absolutely core to what we're doing.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

4. Statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language: Supporting mental well-being in education

The next item is a statement by the Minister for Education and Welsh Language on supporting mental well-being in education. I call on the Minister for Education and Welsh Language, Jeremy Miles.

Jeremy Miles AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Supporting the emotional and mental well-being of learners is essential if we are to support every young person to reach their full potential.
We in Wales have acted at pace. In the current year alone, we have provided record levels of funding to support learners. This has resulted in an additional 24,000 counselling sessions, benefiting an additional 6,000 children and young people. We have provided funding to deliver both universal and targeted well-being interventions for nearly 30,000 children and young people. We have helped to train over 4,000 school staff, and we are rolling our children and mental health adolescent services school in-reach pilots nationally, with over 100 full-time equivalent mental health practitioners providing support directly in schools.
But there is still more to do. Supporting schools to develop a whole-school approach to mental health and well-being is key to our strategy. And that is how we will enable the fundamental changes we all want to see across our education system. The framework on embedding a whole-school approach was published in March and we have made it statutory guidance.

Jeremy Miles AC: This is a long-term piece of work and I want to ensure that our work in schools is replicated across other public services and across communities. This is why we have ensured strong links between our whole-school approach framework and the Together for Children and Young People NEST/NYTH framework, which complements our whole-school framework by strengthening the response of our partners and the whole system to the well-being of our children and young people.
I also want to ensure our successful work in schools is extended across the whole education system. I've therefore identified further education as a priority for further action. Investment has been made to support the mental health and well-being of both staff and learners within the further education sector, with nearly £7 million allocated to support a range of tailored initiatives. Part of this investment has also been dedicated to the work-based learning and adult learning sectors. Funding is being used to support national, collaborative and institutional projects, which include staff training, peer mentoring and the employment of pastoral coaches and well-being officers, as well as providing counselling.
Higher education also remains a priority. We all know the challenges students have faced since the start of the pandemic. Over the past year, we have allocated an additional £50 million through the Higher Education Funding Council for Wales to help universities address student hardship. This includes £10 million to provide increased support to students facing financial, emotional or mental health difficulties. Support for students in higher education is tailored to their needs, reflecting their status as independent adults and recognising the particular pressures they face around living independently, managing their own money and coping with the challenge of independent study.
I want ambition to be at the heart of our work and, in thinking about the mental, physical and social well-being of our young people, it is therefore right that we consider how and when we learn. As such, we have committed, in the programme for government, to explore reform of the school day and the school year. We haven't had a serious conversation about the way we structure school time in Wales for decades. That's far too long.
Going back to normal without first discussing it in the context of staff and learner well-being, tackling the impact of disadvantage on attainment and curriculum reform, would be a wasted opportunity. I'm leading work on the rhythm of the school day and year, and conversations with learners, with school staff, families, employers, unions and communities across the country over the coming weeks will underpin our wider work. Starting by talking to young people themselves, the school workforce and business representatives, followed by wider national engagement in the run up to Christmas, I will speak at first hand to those who can benefit most from reform and who can best help us shape our proposals.
At the same time, we are reviewing UK and international evidence to identify new ways to provide learners with opportunities to learn new skills and engage in new activities. These opportunities can lead to improved emotional well-being and mental health, increased participation in physical activities, healthier eating habits, improved social skills, as well as increased levels of confidence, school readiness—

Sorry, Minister. Can I remind Members, please, to let the Minister speak and not have private conversations in the Chamber, so others can listen? Sorry, Minister.

Jeremy Miles AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. An important part of this is aligning how we access learning with modern patterns of living. Work is now beginning in earnest and I'll announce further details over coming weeks.
To conclude, Dirprwy Lywydd, we in Wales have a proud record of supporting mental health and well-being. And working across the sector, with key partners, we will continue on our journey in supporting a culture change across our education system, where mental well-being is put front and centre in all that we do.

Conservative spokesperson, Laura Anne Jones.

Laura Anne Jones AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. I welcome this statement, Minister. Children across Wales have had an extremely difficult time over this pandemic, and the period has highlighted how vulnerable our children's mental health and well-being is through turbulence and significant change in their lives. Ensuring that every measure is there to support them is paramount as we go forward, and therefore I welcome anything that you could put forward right now in that regard. And I thank you for the work that you've done with Lynne Neagle on it.
Our children need all the support possible. As you said in your statement, you outlined 100 dedicated mental health practitioners. Do you think that that will be enough to cover all schools, and is this number significant enough to cover all the geographical areas? So, I'd just like a little bit more information on that, please.
Of course, we welcome the additional counselling sessions and the training of staff. But it's all very well having the provision in place and having the provision available to be signposted to, but we need people to signpost those children in the right direction in the first place. So, everything that I've said before—and you've heard many times as well, Lynne—is that we need to have dedicated mental health ambassadors throughout student year groups and teaching staff in all of our schools and education providers, so that there is someone there who you can go to, who can signpost you in that right direction to the provision that you're providing and who can look out for the signals of those who are struggling and ask that life-saving question, 'Are you okay?'
And also I welcome what you said, that there's been some staff training, as I said just now. But due to the amount of time that our teachers spend with our children, which is sometimes significantly more than parents, don't you agree with me that it's about time that mental health first aid training formed an integral part of all teachers' training, going forward?
There's also a lot of good work going on in our schools already, as we know. It's important that all learning environments keep talking about mental health, like here in this Chamber, to make sure it's no longer a taboo subject and they're not afraid to admit to any mental health issues or think that they are weak because they do so, because it shows great strength to admit this and to get that help, and that is the message that we need to keep getting across.
We are now more aware than ever of the causes—especially after this pandemic—of mental health issues, but we are also now more aware than ever of what we can do to protect our mental health. Would you agree with me, Minister, that physical activity and socialising have now been recognised as significant and important parts of school life, more so than ever before? And would you agree with me that now is the time to accept the importance of physical activity in the curriculum, invest in it and ensure its importance is recognised in the school timetable—so, I'd welcome your thoughts on that—and to ensure that all schools have all-weather facilities, so physical activity can continue, even in those winter months?
I also note what you say, that you hope there'll be an opportunity for children to develop healthier eating habits, and I wholeheartedly support that. But I hope that, alongside that, also healthier eating options in school meals will be available in our schools—judging from my son's options, it's not that good. So, it is something that we definitely need to look at, if we are serious about that part of our children's well-being.
Also, you said you want to look the structure of school in Wales. This has been bandied around for years, as we know, but I praise you for now saying that you're going to look into it, and with such regard for it. But because, as we know, this would be such a significant change, if you started changing the hours of school and everything else, there really has to be a holistic approach to this. Because the knock-on effect from changing school hours is massive, not only for school transport issues, but parents' working hours, for early years provision, because it all has got to be married together to change the school provision. But I welcome—. Any sort of extension of after-school activities, of course I would welcome. But I'd just like to know your initial thoughts—I know you're looking into it, but your initial thoughts—on how you see the school day panning out. Thank you.

Jeremy Miles AC: Diolch to Laura Anne Jones for that wide range of questions. I'll try and do justice to the breadth and depth of the questions that she covered in her contribution. In relation, firstly, to the question of the recruitment of over 100 whole-time equivalent staff to support the work of the CAMHS in-reach pilots and other interventions, I think it is a challenge to meet that target in itself, actually. It's a considerable number of additional professionals to recruit into the system in a reasonably short period of time. I think the experience on the ground is that the health boards are in different places on the journey, dependent on their participation in some of the work of the pilots to date. But I think, actually, that'll be a significant contribution to our agenda in this space.
I think she made a very important point in relation to counselling services and the range of benefits they can bring, but also some of the challenges in delivering that larger scale implementation. I mentioned some of the numbers in my statement, which the funding is intended to cover. Alongside that, she will, I know, be reassured to know that there is a review of the counselling service happening as well, so that we can learn from that, and that'll be followed up shortly by a series of one-to-one consultations with stakeholders across the system, and I think also making sure we capture experiences right across the system will be important. Some of the additional funding that has been made available will be around providing additional training to counsellors, forging links with providers of complementary services, where they're relevant, as well as addressing some of the waiting lists, because there is, as she will know, significant demand in the system at the moment. So, there's a kind of holistic approach being taken to that, the provision of counselling services.
The Member took the opportunity that she had already taken with my colleague the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being to raise the point that she makes frequently about mental health first aid. I think I have little to add to my colleague's observations here. What we don't want to do is to follow a path that takes us to a less ambitious outcome than I think the framework is going to take us towards. And really, we share this ambition in Government to make sure that we have the most ambitious approach to mental health in a whole-school context throughout everything that we do. We are mindful that there is a range of resources and interventions available to school leaders in making some of the judgments that they make in implementing the whole-school approach. And so, in order to help them navigate what can be quite a crowded space, I think, if you're making judgments about the best interventions, the best resources to use, we've commissioned Public Health Wales to develop a toolkit of evidence-based interventions, which will support schools in choosing which of the well-being interventions best support the individual—you know, the blend of needs that they have amongst their cohort. That work was paused during the COVID period, but that's actually now restarted, and I hope that that will be a useful tool for schools in addressing some of these questions.
I welcome her support for our emphasis on physical activity in the new curriculum, and indeed in encouraging that in the existing provision. She will know that we have recently provided an additional £20 million in fundingto support access to play and sporting, creative and expressive activities, building on the Summer of Fun, through the renew and reform programme, and I know that she shares my passion for making sure that young people have opportunities to support their well-being generally through physical activities.
She closed with some questions in relation to the reform of the school day and the school year. As I say, the conversations with learners—we will start with learners and then the other stakeholders that we work with throughout the system—will be undertaken before the end of this year with a view to consultation in 2022. From my point of view, what I want to see in relation to the school day is to provide a range of opportunities for our learners, building on the things that we have seen have worked over the course of the last year and some of our other responses to the pressures that COVID has brought on our young people. Now, some of that will be about learning, but some of it will be in the way that she was, I think, hoping for, around play and cultural experiences, to have a richer set of experiences for our young people. There are lots of international examples that we can draw on. There are some examples within the UK—other parts of the UK—in Scotland and in England in particular, which we will be drawing on. We are already doing an evaluation of some of those things. Obviously, that will form part of the broader public conversation that follows.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Delyth Jewell.

Delyth Jewell AC: Thank you, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you for the statement also, Minister. I wanted to ask you about eco-anxietyor anxiety related to the climate change emergency, which is affecting an increasing number of young people. As you'll be aware, this is an issue that I've been trying to persuade the Government to act upon since the beginning of this Senedd.
Academics at the University of Bath have undertaken an inquiry into this issue, which found that 60 per cent of young people are either very concerned or extremely concerned about climate change. And the academics have also emphasised that eco-anxiety is an entirely rational and understandable fear. So, this isn't about convincing the young people otherwise here, but supporting them in a way. So, may I ask you what changes in the curriculum you would be willing to consider making to deal with this phenomenon of climate change anxiety, and also the evidence on which this anxiety is based? I think that we need to legitimise this concern; we need to demonstrate that we're all listening to young people when they tell us how they feel, that we're also asking them for their ideas, and that we're making them feel less isolated in facing the whole situation.
Of course, we need to focus on the framing, about how young people learn about climate change. It's not just about the disasters, but about the agency that we all have; I repeat, it's about having that agency. I would also like to see more support given to teachers and perhaps more training on how to cope with this anxiety that is being experienced by an increasing number of children.
This is an issue, Minister, on which I think we could make a major difference to children's lives by listening to what they're telling us. I would really like to see movement on this by the Government, and I'd be more than happy, and enthusiastic, to work with the Government on this, and I am genuinely eager to hear your view on what can be done in schools to respond to this eco-anxiety.
And finally, Minister, bearing in mind that climate change is but one huge challenge amongst a number of challenges facing the next generation, how does the Government intend to help children to recover from the stress caused by the pandemic? I know this was mentioned by Laura Jones earlier. Children have lost out on time spent with friends, they've seen parents and relatives suffering, and some have lost members of the family. As with climate change, we can see the impact that the pandemic is having on whole communities, and these young people need to be able to process how they feel in order to learn about sharing experiences and be able to come through such a difficult situation. So, how is the Government going to ensure that support is available in schools to help with this, please?

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Delyth Jewell for those questions on two very important areas. In terms of the first, and eco-anxiety, I've already acknowledged in the discussions that we've had how important it is to take this into account, and it's a core part of the work that we're already undertaking in our schools in order to ensure that eco-anxiety, as with a whole range of other anxieties, is part of our understanding of the needs of our pupils.
In terms of the role of that in our curriculum, well, the curriculum, of course, provides for a broad range of changes that will assist teachers in supporting our learners in tackling issues around climate change generally, and eco-anxiety will be part of that. I agree entirely with her that a broader understanding, not only of the challenge, but also in terms of what we as individuals can do, is an important part of responding to that issue of eco-anxiety and issues of well-being and mental health that arise from that. But I would certainly argue that that's at the heart of the curriculum as it is currently designed. It is a constant theme throughout the whole curriculum, and specifically in the context of health and well-being as an area of learning and experience. We are currently providing resources for the new curriculum, and supporting the sector in commissioning and developing those resources, with an emphasis on resources in the context of climate change as part of that. So, I will ensure that we do provide support to provide materials around eco-anxiety as a broader part of that.
The second set of questions related to what support we're providing in dealing with the impact of the pandemic on the mental health and well-being of our young people. I would refer her to the work that the Deputy Minister referred to in her statement—and I've already referred to this—in terms of the whole-school framework. It's a change of culture within schools so that all parts of the school community understand the importance of this agenda and have the skills to provide support for our learners, but also for the education workforce more broadly. And that is a fundamental response to what has happened over recent times. Of course, the foundations were laid pre COVID, but I think we've all learnt just how important this has been over the past year to 18 months.
And in terms of the renew and reform programme, specific funding has been provided within that in order to ensure that we're able to work one to one with those pupils who need that, in order to provide specific support tailored for their needs. That's part of the broader programme; there are many other examples, of course, and I would refer the Member to that document.

Vikki Howells AC: Thank you, Minister, for your statement today; I have a few questions arising. A whole-school approach is obviously one that ensures that a policy is embedded across school life, and indeed if it's done well, then that can be the case. However, there is a danger that a whole-school approach, if not well planned and adequately analysed, can, in fact, simply place additional measures on actual teachers to deliver mental well-being support, in addition to their existing curriculum, without additional time being allocated or additional training. What discussions have you had or do you intend on having with teachers and their trade unions to ensure that adequate time and training can be provided to deliver meaningful well-being support?
And, secondly, a key stressor on our learners, which perhaps is not discussed as widely as it should be, is the impact that teacher stress has on them. Teaching is widely recognised as a highly stressful occupation; it would be naive of us to think that teachers don't convey this stress to their students at times. This can be in terms of teacher absence as a result of mental health issues, making continuity and quality of learning difficult, or students picking up on teacher stress during lessons and becoming stressed themselves as a result. Therefore, what work is being done to support teachers with their own mental health issues, and does the Minister agree with me that more needs to be done in this area?

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank the Member for those two important questions. I think providing sufficient capacity in the system to be able to provide training and develop the professional learning environment that is needed is obviously essential. Part of the investment that we've made, of course, over the recent period is to enhance capacity in our schools to be able to respond to some of the principal challenges of COVID, and that includes questions of well-being, both from the point of view of our learners, but also from the point of view of the teaching and other wider education workforce as well. Teacher well-being is a crucial dimension to that, in the way that her question sets out.
For the last two years, we have funded Education Support, which is, I'm sure she will know, a charitable organisation with expertise in providing support for well-being across the education profession to provide direct support for individuals in schools, but also to provide guidance and advice for teachers, school leaders and managers to give them the tools through which they can then support their staff. Some of that, as I say, is around support for individuals, in particular, perhaps, those practitioners working in highly challenging contexts. Some of it is support for the school on a systemic basis, helping them to create a mentally healthy workplace that benefits all parts of the school community, and some of that has been around well-being workshops booked in for INSET days and a range of other interventions. So, I hope that will provide a significant level of support for the teaching workforce in how they take forward the whole-school approach across Wales.

And finally, Jane Dodds.

Jane Dodds AS: Diolch yn fawr iawn, Dirprwy Lywydd. Can I also put on record, on behalf of the Welsh Liberal Democrats, our best wishes to Andrew R.T. Davies in his recovery and thank him for his very bold and clear statements in terms of his mental health?
Minister, I'd like to thank you for bringing forward this very important debate and issue. The mental well-being of our children and young people is so important, and I'm pleased that the Welsh Government are continuing with this whole-school approach to mental well-being, which is integral to the new curriculum, as developed by your predecessor, Welsh Liberal Democrat Kirsty Williams. So, thank you very much for profiling this this afternoon.
I'd just like to highlight the issue around cross-cutting work, because 60 per cent of children and young people attempting to access specialist mental health services through CAMHS are waiting four weeks or more for their first appointment as of July 2021. There's been an increase to CAMHS services of around 350 per cent on the previous year's figures. So, my question and issue really are around how we can work across both health and education to ensure that there is a need to continue to support CAMHS services, but also ensure that children don't fall through the cracks, by making sure that we have adequate whole-school approaches in schools. And, secondly, I wonder if I could ask you what thought you have given to creating a network of mental health support over a 24-hour period, seven days a week for our children and young people. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Jeremy Miles AC: I thank Jane Dodds for that set of questions and join with her in paying tribute to my predecessor and for her commitment to both curriculum reform and to the agenda of mental health of children and young people, which was a very committed and very considerable priority for her. I hope you will have heard in both the contributions that Lynne Neagle and I have made in the Chamber today how joined up we are within the Government in relation to the interventions that can be made from a health perspective and from an education perspective to try and make sure that that joined-up approach that she identifies as being so important is, and becomes even more so, the reality on the ground. We jointly chair the task and finish group, as Lynne Neagle was outlining earlier, and a number of the interventions in this space are the product of very, very close working between the health department and education department, because we recognise that the very essence of this working is to ensure that children don't fall between the cracks, if you like, and there's a seamless service that supports children and young people in all their mental health and well-being needs. I'm confident that the work that we are putting in from a Government point of view is best designed to reach that outcome, but there are significant challenges in the system in delivering that in the way that I know that she is aware, and I hope that some of the things that we've outlined today in both the statements you've heard so far, and the ones that will follow, demonstrate how committed the Government is to making sure that everyone gets the support they need for their mental health.

Thank you, Minister. We will now suspend proceedings to allow changeovers in the Siambr. If you are leaving the Siambr, please do so promptly. The bell will be rung two minutes before proceedings restart, and any Members who are arriving after a changeover should wait until then before entering the Siambr.

Plenary was suspended at 15:59.

The Senedd reconvened at 16:08, with the Llywydd in the Chair.

5. Statement by the Minister for Climate Change: Nature, biodiversity and local places for nature

The next item is the statement by the Minister for Climate Change on nature, biodiversity and local places for nature. I call on the Minister for Climate Change to make her statement—Julie James.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Llywydd. The natural environment in Wales underpins our well-being. Access to nature and taking action with others to care for nature benefits our mental health. The connection we have in Wales to our land and waters runs deep in our culture. It makes us who we are. Whilst we rely on nature for the economic opportunities it provides and the protection against pollution and natural hazards, our relationship is not purely functional. We cannot capture the full value of nature in a balance sheet and we cannot afford to leave its fate to be determined by the free market. The many thousands of people across Wales already taking action to halt and reverse the decline in nature are inspired by a desire to hand on our natural heritage in a condition of which we can be proud.
Developing a more sustainable relationship with the natural world begins in our local communities. The aim of this Government is to strengthen the connections between communities and nature by increasing the opportunities for people to be a part of collective action to respond to the climate and nature emergencies. This approach is reflected in the wide range of new initiatives we have developed in recent years, including our national forest, the sustainable farming scheme, our world-leading requirements to implement sustainable drainage, the priority we are giving to nature-based flood management schemes, and others. We are committed also over the course of this term to develop further initiatives, including a coastal habitat restoration scheme, a new national park, and supporting the designation of inland bathing waters to build on the high bathing water standards achieved right across the Welsh coastline. I believe there are opportunities to apply the approach we have taken to exemplar housing sites to developing exemplar nature recovery sites, particularly across the national nature resource areas identified in 'Future Wales'. These actions are not simply about maintaining and enhancing our landscapes, rivers and seas, but connecting communities more closely to them.
I would like to highlight two particularly important schemes we have developed with partners, and I would urge all Members of the Senedd to take a close interest in activity under way in their local areas and to encourage communities to get involved and shape this activity in years to come. The Nature Networks initiative was launched earlier this year, and today I have announced the first 29 projects to receive funding, benefiting more than 100 habitats and species of international significance. These projects recognise nature as a series of networks on land and at sea that we need to connect and grow to make them more resilient. Projects we are funding include connecting fragmented woodlands to enable species to establish habitat over larger areas, reducing phosphate pollution in rivers to protect nature far downstream, and improving the condition of habitats to enable some of our most iconic species to have greater freedom to roam—the curlew, fritillary butterflies and angel sharks, for example. Crucially, projects harness the energy of local communities—supporting citizen science, involvement of schools, and providing skills and training opportunities. In this sense, Nature Networks are both ecological networks and also the networks of people needed to ensure we are able sustain this action on nature into the future.
The second initiative I would like to highlight is the Local Places for Nature scheme, launched at the start of 2020 with the aim of supporting communities to create nature on their doorstep, working with local authorities and community groups both large and small. Whilst Nature Networks delivers at landscape scale, Local Places for Nature supports modest measures that can make a big difference at a community level, improving access to nature by creating and enhancing green spaces closest to where people live and work, from community food growing to nature-friendly mowing practices. Despite the impact of the pandemic, the public response to this initiative was overwhelming, and the scheme more than doubled in scale in response to demand. Not only do we aim to maintain this extraordinarily high level of public participation, but we want to increase it even further, and I would welcome contributions from Members here today about opportunities they see for us to achieve just that.
Our ability to support long-term action on nature has unfortunately been undermined by UK Government mismanagement of the public finances. By failing to provide multi-annual funding, and failing to replace funding that we have in the past received from the European Union, the UK Government has worked against nature recovery in Wales. I hope that all Members in the Chamber today will join with me in calling on the UK Government to provide a multi-year funding settlement for Welsh Government at the next spending review to enable us to provide multi-annual funding to our partners and communities, so the impact of the action Welsh communities are taking on nature can be amplified even further. For its part, the Welsh Government is ready to launch multi-annual schemes, including Nature Networks and Local Places for Nature, that can provide greater certainty and a longer planning horizon for those we fund, with a focus on the long-term priorities we are developing with Natural Resources Wales, local authorities and through our engagement with the third sector.
I hope Members will also join with me in calling on the UK Government to honour its promise to ensure Wales would not be a penny worse off as a result of leaving the European Union, and to provide in full replacement funding for EU rural development and the EU LIFE programmes. This year alone, Wales has lost out on tens of millions of pounds of investment in nature and in rural Wales. In the context of the climate and nature emergency, and on the eve of global summits on climate and nature, including COP26 in Glasgow, the UK Government must recognise the urgency of the situation and reverse its decision to deprive Wales of these crucial investments in the well-being of our communities. This week marks the start of COP15, the global convention on biological diversity, which aims to agree a new set of goals for nature recovery over the next decade. I can confirm the Welsh Government is committed to supporting the 30x30 target, which is proposed for negotiation at COP15, to protect 30 per cent of our land and seas by 2030.
We are committed to working with Welsh communities and the Senedd to develop our approach to meeting this goal. This will require strategic, regulatory and legislative action, which only the Welsh Government, working closely with the Senedd, can deliver. Achieving this goal will also require collective action in every community in Wales, where initiatives like Nature Networks and Local Places for Nature can create opportunities for people to work together to protect and enhance our natural heritage, and with it our mental health and our wider well-being. Diolch.

Janet Finch-Saunders AC: I do thank you, Minister, for this timely statement and the Noah's ark of activities that you announced earlier. I think it would be interesting for us all to know more about the 29 projects, but I do welcome the fact that nearly 70 species and 50 types of habitats are now to be protected. I would ask you whether you agree with me whether the 29 projects would be even more exciting if we could understand more how they are to contribute to achieving a specific target set by us. Fourteen weeks on from the declaration of a nature emergency, there's been no action as yet to act on the calls of this Senedd to introduce a legally-binding requirement to reverse biodiversity loss through statutory targets. So, will you agree, Minister, to bring in some legislation and put in law those targets? It's obvious that we all support the protection of 30 per cent of our land and seas by 2030.
Now, I am aware that you have started assembling a technical advisory group to help develop key strategies. By when do you aim to have draft plans ready for us to analyse? And one plan, of course, already published is the NFU Cymru's 'Growing Together: A strategy for sustainably increasing tree cover in Wales'. So, alongside reminding us of their ambitious goal of reaching net-zero greenhouse gas emissions for agriculture by 2040, it does highlight to everybody just how much our farmers are part of the solution. With over 80 per cent of land in Wales managed by our farmers, farming presents the greatest opportunity in terms of available land for new tree planting. However, will you commit to working to ensuring that future schemes for woodland creation will also reward farmers to deliver a wide range of public benefits from land, such as by planting hedges, shelter belts, streamside corridors, and the protection and the enhancement of other important carbon sinks, such as soils, peatlands and grassland?
We have, up to now, squandered the opportunity for Wales to be a world leader on environmental governance, with Scotland and the UK now overtaking us on environmental protections. So, whilst I know that you are committed to bringing forward suitable-for-Wales governance arrangements, why wait for the First Minister or Counsel General to make a statement on next year's legislative programme? Should legislation be presented this term, I'm sure you would find considerable momentum and support from all corners of this Siambr.
I welcome the overwhelming response to the Local Places for Nature scheme, and can respond to your request by suggesting that the scheme could be developed so that it helps town and community councils across Wales to cultivate for their community by entering Wales in Bloom 2022. This can be easily accessed by schools to see the areas around our churches and chapels, often graveyards, become even greater nature sanctuaries and places to rest and remember.
Finally, whilst I am eager to co-operate with you, I'm saddened that you have decided to claim that the UK Government has worked against nature recovery in Wales. You know, Minister, full well that the UK Government is placing Wales at the heart of the drive to deliver net zero and build back greener. The UK Government has committed £90 million to innovative Welsh net-zero projects, and last month you, in particular, must have been most pleased to see that the UK and Welsh Governments approved £58.7 million to help establish the Swansea bay city region as a leader in low-carbon growth and the green economy. So, is your attack on the UK Government a sign that you are now rowing back from co-operating on excellent schemes, such as the low-carbon programme, or are we all going to continue working together for Wales, going forward? There has to be this joint strategic approach by the UK Government and the Welsh Government. They are willing; are you, Minister? Diolch.

Julie James AC: I'll just start from where Janet finished and say that, of course, we're willing to work together with the UK Government if only they were willing to work with us. Janet mentioned a few of the investments she says that they have made but, of course, they're all historic investments. What they haven't done is replaced the funding that we've lost from the European Union, and she knows that as well as I do. She would help Wales very much if she were able to make sure that the Government that she supports stays with its promise that Wales should not be a penny less well off as a result of us leaving the European Union, and she knows full well that that's not currently the case.
In terms of the other things that she's asked me, the binding targets I have discussed many times already in this Senedd. Of course, we will be looking at binding targets. We will be looking at that in the light of both COP15 and COP26, in the light of where the global community is, and to make sure that they are both stretching and achievable. So, I would be very happy to work with Senedd Members on coming to an agreement about what those targets should be, and I'd be very happy to have my feet held to that fire, because that's exactly what we want. We want stretching, binding targets. But we need to make sure that we set them in the right context and at the right level of stretch. So, I'd be very happy to do that.
In terms of plans coming forward, I've had very good meetings with the farmers unions myself. They have been very pleased to work with us. Our plan will be set in the context of our net-zero plan. We have, as you know, a statutory duty to produce such a plan. The plan should be produced by December, but we will be producing it before we go to COP26, so we can use it as the platform for our base there. So, we will be announcing that in the week just before COP26 starts, so I'm sure she'll look forward to that.
In terms of Wales in Bloom, of course we are very happy to support all of those kinds of initiatives. I do commend the numbers of community groups around Wales who are interested in the natural environment, both in beautifying the towns that they live in, but actually, much more importantly, making them receptive for pollinators and other species who are otherwise struggling. I'm very pleased to say that the Welsh Government itself has been able to install a number of bat boxes, bee boxes, and other types of things on its estates and Government buildings, so we are going along with the same thing that we're asking our communities to do in that spirit of 'team Wales'.

Delyth Jewell AC: Can I start by saying that the commitment to 30x30 is welcome? It's very welcome indeed, Minister. It would be useful to have more detail. How will the Welsh Government fund progress towards this commitment, please, and what steps will you be taking to secure extra funding for habitat protection, restoration and creation, and of course the longer term need for the monitoring and maintenance required to keep these sites in good ecological condition? And furthermore, on this point, ensuring that the workforce is there to deliver on these ambitions will be crucial, as I know that you've set out, so I'd welcome more detail on that point, or when we could expect more detail on it.
On the wider issue of targets relating to biodiversity loss, I recognise that the arguments around targets are well rehearsed. The reason for that is that we have spent a lot of time talking about biodiversity targets over the past few months, but the Government has been hesitant to commit, or indeed to give anything away on this point. Wales, like the rest of the world has failed to take sufficient action to halt and reverse biodiversity loss and protect wildlife. I do recognise, Minister, that this has just been rehearsed with Janet, and I do note what you said in response as well. I wanted to add my voice to these points just to remind the Chamber that they are species that are currently declining in Wales or at risk of extinction, and some species have already gone. So, the more quickly, I suppose, that we can get action on this the better. I'm not sure that that's the best grammatical way of putting it across but I hope that that makes sense.
With COP15 opening this week, more than 1,000 businesses have backed a global call for Governments to put in place policies to reverse nature loss this decade. CEOs of companies, including Unilever and H&M have asked for ambitious targets, saying that they're necessary to drive investment and transform business models. Could you set out, please, Minister, in light of this, what kind of action we can expect from the Welsh Government, and could you please outline when it will be possible to see the timeline for targets and the likely scope of those targets? I note again what you said in response to Janet Finch-Saunders on this point. The recent Dasgupta review has re-emphasised that biodiversity is integral to ecosystem health and the ability of ecosystems to provide essential benefits to society. Biodiversity loss impacts on our life support system. It calls for Government budgets to be aligned with the needs of nature, and departmental budgets across sectors to be ensured that they deliver for nature. So, if it's possible to have some more detail on what the Welsh Government aims to do to realise this need, it would also be really useful. Could you outline, in this case, finally, please, Minister, what steps the Government will take to see nature prioritised in financial terms and to align Welsh Government budgets with the needs of nature? Thank you.

Julie James AC: Yes, thank you, Delyth. You were trying to tempt me, I know, only very recently, to agree to the 30x30 target, so I knew you'd be very pleased that we are committing to it today. I'm very sorry I couldn't do it when you were asking me to do it slightly earlier.
Of course, what we'll be doing then, it's one of the targets proposed for the post-2020 biodiversity framework—that's the COP15 process, and just to remind everyone, I know that you already know, Delyth, that that's the process that was going to take place in China and was delayed because of the COVID pandemic and it's now being done virtually and co-operatively across the world. So, our officials have been working with other UK counterparts, through the Four Countries' Biodiversity Group, to develop a common set of principles. We'll be looking to designate wider landscape designations up to that 30 per cent. The 30 per cent is not a ceiling, I just want to—. It's not the limit of our ambition, but it's obviously a place to start. We also want to be really sure that we will be effective in improving and bringing back into good conservation order the lands that we've already worked on. And, Delyth, I know that you're very familiar with my various remarks on the Gwent levels, for example, and making sure that the whole of the Gwent levels comes back up to good conservation order. So, we'll be working to look at sites that could become exemplar projects, both for bringing the actual scientific work to bring the land back up to good nature conservation, but perhaps looking at different funding, community engagement, social enterprise-type models as well, to make sure that we have a sustainable model going forward that we can roll out across Wales. So, we'll be looking to work with all community leaders, including Members of the Senedd and others across Wales, to make sure that we engage and harness, if you like, the power of our communities in the groups that are already out there. I've met with a large number of them already and they're very inspiring and we're certainly wanting to work alongside that.
We're also part of the Edinburgh process of engagement with sub-national Government cities, small countries and local authorities in delivering the post-2020 framework, as it's called, over the next decade. When we've got that piece of work under our belt, then is the time to look at the targets. So, I want to make sure that they're stretching targets. In the light of that global set of targets, we want to understand where the world is going so that we can push the boundaries on it. I don't want to be setting targets now that then turn out to be not as stretching as they could've been, or indeed, so much more stretching that we simply can't get to them and people give up. This is all about harnessing the urgency of the situation whilst not being a counsel of despair, particularly for our young people. People reference all the time the real anxiety that especially young people feel about the scale of the problem that faces us. So, this is about dividing up into bite-sized, stretching but achievable chunks to make sure that people understand that they can play their role and make a real difference in the world. So, it is important to get the targets right. So, the principle of the targets—absolutely accepted. The piece of work we're doing now alongside the various other processes going on in the world is to just make sure that we get the level of that target right. I'm very happy to work with people across the Senedd, and its committees will be very instrumental in helping us to arrive at the right level of targets for us.
In terms of how we're going to proceed with the rest of it, well, we've got a number of things happening on all fronts, really. So, we're looking to support exemplar projects; we're looking to support our scientific groups; we're looking to corralthe advice that we're getting off various scientists in a digestible way for policy formation, very much the way we did during COVID, we learnt a lot during the COVID pandemic about working with our scientists, our engineers and our practical people out there. So, it's about harnessing the right kinds of people to come onto challenge groups for the Government to make sure that they give us advice but also challenge us in our policy making, and again, I'll be looking to co-operate with the Senedd and its committees and yourself in bringing those groups of people forward and making sure that they're fit for purpose.
And the only last thing I wanted to say was that we also are very interested in understanding what's already out there in the communities and making sure that we can support them in an appropriate way, not necessarily just with funding, but in connections and with policy platforms.

Mike Hedges AC: I would like to thank the Minister for this statement, which I also agree is very timely. I agree with the Minister that we need to develop a more sustainable relationship with the natural world and that the relationship begins in our local communities. We all need to be a part of a collective action to respond to the climate change and nature emergency. We cannot leave it to someone else; those of us with gardens can plant trees and allow parts of our gardens to grow wild. These are actions all of us can take, or nearly all of us can take, now.
I further welcome the nature network initiative, with the first 29 projects benefiting more than 100 habitats and species of international significance. It's a good start. Does the Minister agree with me that all of us who can should plant trees in our garden, and we should leave some of our gardens to grow wild? My major concern is the loss of apex predators, such as owls and foxes, which, were it to continue, would distort the ecosystem. Does the Minister share my concern, and, if so, what action will the Welsh Government be taking to support apex predators? Because if you don't have apex predators, you have animals lower down the order, such as rats, which will grow and grow and grow.

Julie James AC: Thank you very much, Mike. I do agree entirely with you. One of the things that we are aiming to do in advance of COP is look to see what we can do to assist people to plant trees, emphasising the right tree in the right place. So, for people lucky enough to have gardens that can support big trees, we can make sure that they can do that and have assistance to plant those trees so that they thrive and grow. We can also make sure that people have advice about what is the right kind of tree.
We've also—I'll just say as an aside—started a piece of work with the insurance industry, because many people have buildings insurance that says that they shouldn't have trees within a certain number of metres of their house. What we don't want is to encourage people to cut trees down in a mistaken understanding of what the root systems do and so on. So, it's all about the right tree in the right place for the right purpose. So, we will certainly be doing that.
We'll also be having a look at—. Well, we're already having a look across public land in Wales to make sure that those people who don't have gardens will also have access to space where we can plant community orchards and other kinds of trees and other plantations. I'm very interested in the model on the continent of a 'tiny forest' as it's called—a perfect, biodiverse forest on the size of a tennis court. So, I'm very interested, especially for urban areas, in what we can do for that and we're working with a large range of partners, looking for suitable sites for those kinds of initiatives.
In terms of the apex predators, we certainly are very concerned that apex predators, particularly raptors, are protected across the lands of Wales. So, we need to work with our farming and other landowning communities to make sure that they understand the right thing to do to ensure that raptors are protected and enhanced, and that we don't have mistaken targeting of raptors in farming communities. We've worked really hard already on really great projects like—I know you're very familiar with it, Mike—the red kite project, the introduction of the red kite, which has been a real example of what can be done when people work together.
I'm also very interested—and I'm not speaking on behalf of the Government here, just myself—in the reintroduction of apex predators across the world. Anyone who has seen the project in Yellowstone on the reintroduction of the wolves knows what the apex predator can do to restore the landscape. Elsewhere in the UK, in Scotland, beavers have been reintroduced into some landscapes. So, we will certainly be looking to work with our landowners and our scientists and our nature people to understand (a) how to protect the apex predators that we still have, and (b) where, if possible, to introduce apex predators elsewhere in Wales.

Joel James MS: As the Minister will be well aware, blue carbon ecosystems have been identified as having enormous potential to store carbon, and exhibit carbon burial rates of up to 30 times higher than forests, which, incidentally, receive a disproportionate amount of attention for their capacity to store carbon. As we know, Wales has a very long coastline; it has more than 3 million hectares of blue carbon habitat, such as coastal salt marshes and seagrass beds. Expanding them and restoring sites once taken over by farms and industry could massively increase the amount of carbon stored and help meet our 2050 carbon target.
I have no doubt that the Minister will know about the seagrass pilot scheme in Dale, Pembrokeshire, where planting seagrass beds has been shown to have many benefits in addition to carbon storage, such as increasing biodiversity and helping to offer a natural and resilient infrastructure against storm surges. In your speech last week, you stated that there was a lot of money available for tree-planting projects in Wales. Today, you have mentioned your commitment to coastal habitat regeneration, and the First Minister also today mentioned the importance of investing in maritime technologies. With this in mind, and given the potential for seagrass to absorb so much more carbon than trees, can the Minister make a commitment to financially prioritising blue carbon ecosystems? Thank you.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Joel. I absolutely am recognising the importance that the marine environment can play in addressing the climate, and I am absolutely committed to establishing a targeted scheme for the restoration of seagrass and salt marsh coastal habitats in this Senedd term. We'll absolutely be working hard to establish a sustainable fisheries management project across portfolios, workingwith my colleague Lesley Griffiths, along an ecosystem approach, as demonstrated by the new—[Inaudible.]—legislation, which I think you're familiar with, and which will soon be coming into force. We obviously need to do this in collaboration with a large number of other activities around the coast. The Wales marine action and advisory group, which advises me, is beginning to develop a blue recovery plan for the next Senedd term, focused on action for resilient marine ecosystems and the growth they can deliver, exactly as you say, through nature-based solutions and community-based developments. So, I'm very happy to confirm that we are indeed looking at exactly that. You're absolutely right: seagrass and salt marsh restoration plays a huge part in carbon sequestration and management.
Just to say a small thing about the tree point that you made, talking about trees is a little bit like the World Wildlife Fund talking about pandas—it’s the iconic bit of it. It’s not necessarily the most important bit; it’s the most eye-catching bit. So, we absolutely are aware that long-grass meadows, coastal habitats, salt marshes, the Gwent levels, blanket bogs, peatlands—there’s an enormous long list of types of landscape that carbon sequester just as well. So, I just want to reassure everybody that, although trees are the iconic bit at the front, we are absolutely aware that they are not the only solution, nor even probably the biggest solution, but they are the most iconic one.

Heledd Fychan AS: Minister, you referenced the benefit of nature on mental health during your statement, but we've also seen and you referenced anxiety, and we've seen the negative impact of the climate and nature emergency on the mental health of people living in communities that have already been impacted by these changes and live in fear of being impacted again. I know that Delyth Jewell raised this with the Minister for education earlier, but I would like to see that emphasis on support available and wondered is there any funding available to support people’s mental health in at-risk communities as part of proposals.
I was also pleased to hear in the statement that you are prioritising nature-based flood management schemes in response to the climate and nature emergencies. As the area that was worst hit by flooding in 2020, what specific plans does the Welsh Government have to utilise nature-based solutions to mitigate flooding and other climate-related hazards in Rhondda Cynon Taf? And how will communities across Rhondda Cynon Taf be empowered to be part of delivering such schemes? A lot of the action and response to recovery from the floods to date have been led by organisations or authorities rather than community led, with very little communication with residents or opportunities for them to be part of collective action. When will they see this changing from your statement today?

Julie James AC: Diolch, Heledd. Those are very important points. In terms of the mental health point, I will certainly be working with colleagues Jeremy Miles and Lynne Neagle across the Government to make sure that, as we have community-based nature recovery schemes, we ensure that people are connected back to nature. We know that the connection back to nature really does help with mental health, and, as you know, there is a scheme across Government to look at that kind of social prescribing as well to make sure that people who have lost their connection with nature can rediscover it. So, I’m more than happy to update the Senedd as we take some of those issues forward, and I’m sure my colleagues will be very happy to do so as well.
In terms of natural flood management, we're investing around £3 million over three years in natural flood management as part of the pilot programme. We estimate that the programme will help reduce flood risk to about 1,000 properties, and it also obviously provides wider benefits, like habitat creation and improvement and enhancing public amenities. The programme is currently 100 per cent funded and is providing an excellent learning scheme that will enhance our future delivery for natural flood management across Wales. We’ve currently provided funding for 15 projects, which are being delivered by 10 different risk-management authorities across Wales. They’re working in partnership with landowners and key stakeholders, such as Snowdonia National Park Authority, West Wales Rivers Trust and the Woodland Trust, to deliver those mutual benefits. Once the pilots have completed, we’ll be able to take the learning from that and engage our communities on where the next set of the projects should be, as I absolutely do take your point that the communities need to be fully engaged in the project in their area.

Alun Davies AC: I'm grateful to you, Minister, for the statement this afternoon. I think it contains a lot of things that we have the right to look forward to. Also, I'm very grateful and pleased to hear your answer to Delyth Jewell earlier in this session, where you outlined the process by which you will be looking towards developing targets; I think that's absolutely essential in terms of driving forward this programme. But there are two things I would like to raise with you this afternoon: first of all, my concern that there is a certain lack of coherence in many of the schemes and projects and programmes that the Welsh Government is producing. There are a lot of good things happening, and there are a lot of good schemes being announced, but I worry that there isn't the coherence between schemes that actually means that they are actually meeting the ambitions that they could be meeting.
The second thing is that of designations. The Welsh Government reviewed the whole principle of designations some years ago; I felt that the report was quite a disappointing report. And we know that designations by themselves do not lead to the protection of biodiversity, or certainly have a very mixed record in doing so. Is it not time for us to review again the designations that we use to protect land, nature and landscapes in Wales, to have the sort of coherence of designations that can actually prevent biodiversity loss and restore habitats? Because, at the moment, the one thing we can be clear about is that the range of legal tools available to us are not delivering in terms of biodiversity loss across the country.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Alun. Thank you. Yes, I take your point there, and, actually, interestingly enough, I'm having slight déjà vu here, because I remember asking you this question when you were the Minister and I was a backbencher, so we've been working on this for some time. So, what we've asked now—I've asked officials to explore what can be done to further improve the way that our national park authorities in particular manage the protected areas within their boundaries. There are a number of levers we have at our disposal to do that, and I know the national parks will be very keen to step up to that as well. So, we'll be having a series of meetings particularly with the national parks, but also looking at our areas of outstanding natural beauty and our other protected areas, to see what we can do to enhance the way that our designated landscapes are protected. And, as I say, this isn't just about protecting the landscape, this isn't about not doing it any further damage; this is about arresting the damage and then turning it around and actually bringing those areas back into good conservation order, so back into increased biodiversity.
There was a really worrying report that we had over the weekend about biodiversity loss—we should all be very, very worried about this. So, we need to really seriously look at not just not doing any further harm but actually enhancing and recovering all of our designated landscapes across Wales. And I'd be very happy, Alun, to work with yourself, other Members of the Seneddand our committees to make sure that we get the very best out of what we've already got designated, and, indeed, look to see whether we should be designating other landscapes across Wales.

Mark Isherwood AC: In your statement, you refer to
'improving the condition of habitats to enable some of our most iconic species to have greater freedom to roam',
and I was grateful that one of the species you named was the curlew. Further to your very positive and welcome response to Gylfinir Cymru /Curlew Wales's action plan for the recovery of the curlew, do you recognise that this is about a lot more than freedom to roam, that, if we don't do something urgently, the curlew will disappear as a breeding population in Wales in just 12 years, but, if we do, there'll be multiple and multispecies benefits contributing positively to the sustainability of over 80 other species, and we need to embrace the farming population across Wales who have joined this agenda, and work with them and other agencies to make this survival a priority for all?

Julie James AC: Diolch, Mark—thank you, Mark. I was very pleased that you facilitated introduction to the curlew group for me. We had an excellent meeting, and we were very much on the same page in terms of what needs to be done.
As you heard in my statement, I'm looking for examplar schemes across Wales, where groups have already come together with a very good plan for what they want to do. While I met with the curlew group, I asked them to have another look at their plan and see if it could be brought forward, and I'm really looking forward to hearing back from them. And, as I said, I'm very grateful to you for having effected the introduction and, indeed, for your championing of the species.

Jenny Rathbone AC: I agree it's easy to be paralysed by the extent of the challenge facing us, as the UK now has the most depleted nature resources in Europe. Good practice doesn't always travel well, and so I just wondered how we are going to share the good practice that is going on in various parts of our community. For example, I don't think that Nature Networks and Local Places for Nature are household names, and they absolutely need to be, and we need to engage all publicly funded bodies to be involved in this saving of our planet.
In terms of mental health benefits, last week I attended the open day of Adferiad Recovery, and saw the wonderful work going on, with people using gardening as a way of dealing with their addictions, and it really is a very, very powerful way of helping people with mental health crises. Next month, I'll be working with the National Trust, planting fruit trees in super-output areas of deprivation in my community as part of its Blossom Watch, and I'm very grateful to them for the work they're doing.
But I also just want to point out the work being done by Brent local authority, which I learnt about last night in a meeting, which I know that your Deputy Minister was also involved in, where they're using—. The fact that we've got cuts in local authority spending mean they're doing less grass cutting, but they're using that as an opportunity to plant more pollinating flowers and plants, and they've even got a bee corridor. They also have a monthly newsletter of the Brent forum, which ensures that everybody in the forum knows about what everybody else is doing. And I just wondered if there wasn't some sort of electronic way in which we could be spreading good practice on a fairly regular basis.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Jenny. Thank you very much for that, Jenny; Lee Waters was involved in that as well. We're certainly going to be looking at learning any lessons that we can learn from that. We absolutely do want our new programmes to be household names. We were very heartened by the number of community groups that have already come together to do this. So, we've already got the 29 projects across Wales. Once the funding rolls out, people will become aware of the schemes because they're great schemes; I'm hoping that Members of the Senedd will play their part in publicising them as well. But you're absolutely right: what we want to do is take the learning from all of these projects and then help the next set of community groups come together to access the funding for this, and indeed, as I said in response, I think, to Delyth, not just the funding, but the ways of organising it, the ways of engagement, the ways that you can lever in different kinds of finance.
I attended a Gwent levels working group, chaired by our colleague John Griffiths, only very recently, and it was very interesting to see the very different organisations that had come together there with him in the chair; different alliances of people coming together in good practice to both enthuse people to go out and actually do the physical work, but actually for those who didn't want to do that bit, do a whole series of other things around comms and publicity, planning and all the rest of it, which goes with that. So, I think there's a lot that we can learn from each other to do that. There are several really excellent schemes across Wales encouraging people not only to garden their own gardens, but to go out and help others in their community who are not able to do that, and I'm very keen to be able to share good practice on that basis as well.
And last but not least, the whole issue around the planting of community orchards and fruit trees is of real interest to us, and we're going to be working hard on this—the right-tree-for-the-right-place kind of space—to make sure that we can get fruit trees included in the numbers of trees that we plant across Wales.

John Griffiths AC: Thank you very much for your statement today, Minister. I'm particularly keen on the local places of nature and connecting people in urban communities, which most of our population live in of course, with nature, as best we can. In Newport, there's a community in Maindee, which is just over the river from the city centre, which had and still has little green space, but they have an organisation, Maindee Unlimited, and an offshoot, Greening Maindee, which is doing a lot of really good work in creating gardens and orchards for community use, working with schools to create corridors for nature near to the school. They have a project opposite Maindee library, where they're based, to develop a patch of ground that was once, basically, a public toilet with a little bit of land around it, called the triangle, to develop that and, again, to green it and to create a community cafe. So, they're doing a lot of really good work. And I just wonder, Minister, if groups like that, with a track record of delivery, would benefit particularly from the schemes and the funding that is available, when they represent areas that are particularly lacking in green space, and Maindee is also very diverse ethnically. It has a lot of social and economic issues, but improving quality of life through these schemes is absolutely vital and puts a spring in every local person's step.
Just one other matter, Minister, I wonder if there's any work you might be able to do with Network Rail where they have—again, in urban areas where a lot of people live—railway bridges that are very unsightly, they're quite forbidding to walk underneath because they drip with water, they're not well lit, they're very drab and forbidding—

The Deputy Presiding Officer took the Chair.

Can the Member conclude now?

John Griffiths AC: I've been trying to work with Network Rail to allow for some brightening up of this area, with perhaps graffiti artists and so on, but they say that their criteria are such that unless there's a structural issue, they have no funding for those sorts of schemes. I wonder if there's anything you might do to work with them to address those issues and limitations.

Julie James AC: Diolch, John. Well, on that last one, I'm very happy to say that we've had a great deal of success, with my other hat on, in Swansea. We've done exactly that: we've had graffiti artists and lighting and so on put into one of the big railway arches that connects two parts of the centre of Swansea together, and I'm more than happy to have you come down and have a look at it and have a talk with the people from Swansea station and Network Rail who helped us do that. So, it certainly is possible, and I'm more than happy to talk to them at a strategic level about it as well. There's a lot of greening things that can be done with the arches as well, actually, not just brightening them up, and Network Rail has a large amount of land along the sides of its tracks, of course, that can be used for nature corridors and pollinators. So, I'm very keen on doing that.
The 29 projects that we've just awarded funding to will be used as pilots, so there will be other funding rounds. As I said in response to Janet Finch-Saunders, one of the biggest problems we have is that we don't have multi-annual budgets ourselves. So, I hope that the Conservative colleagues that are listening to this today will urge the UK Government to give us more than a single year settlement, so that we can put multi-annual funding in to assist groups like the one you mentioned in Maindee and, indeed, the Gwent levels group, which could seriously do with somemulti-annual funding, because we know that nature isn't a one-off piece, it's about both recovering it, restoring it, but then, of course, maintaining it. So, we need the funding to be multi-annual in order to be able to do that.
And, John, I'm very happy to work with you and others right across the Senedd to help the various community groups that are coming together to green our urban areas, and indeed, actually, to give access in our rural areas to the funding that there is, and, as I said, to come together in different and innovative ways of working to make sure that we can enhance all of our local natural places.

Carolyn Thomas AS: I really welcome today's funding announcement. Across the UK, we've seen a 44 per cent decline of 770 species as a result of habitat loss and environmental challenges. The nature networks fund demonstrates quite clearly that the Welsh Government is leading the way in tackling the biodiversity and nature crisis we face. The climate emergency and nature crisis need to be treated with the same urgency. I say that because, very often, people talk about carbon reduction, but miss out the nature crisis that needs to be treated the same way.
These projects, which include £1.5 million for the North Wales Wildlife Trust, are essential in protecting our biodiversity as well as sharing information on how and why we need to protect our future. The statement also recognises the power of communities, which is paramount, and since being elected, I've met with numerous voluntary organisations and seen the amazing work local volunteers do. But at the heart of this has to be a strong leader, backed up by core funding to help community projects thrive, and the nature networks fund will certainly provide this.
I recently visited the National Botanic Garden of Wales to hear from researchers about the incredible scientific work they are doing, saving pollinators using DNA evidence. Another example of how research in Wales—

Can the Member ask a question now, please?

Carolyn Thomas AS: —is leading the way in tackling biodiversity loss. But I was concerned to hear that two of the three scientists I met would see their funding cut, one in March and one in June next year, because it comes from the European agricultural fund, which comes to an end. Does the Minister agree with me that the funding announced today shows Welsh Government's commitment, which is great, but concern regarding the challenges that Brexit poses regarding European funding and sustainability of this really important scientific research into biodiversity and the DNA research? Thank you.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Carolyn. Thank you very much. I, too, have visited the botanic gardens relatively recently and have seen the really excellent project that you're talking about. It is a real matter of concern to us that the UK Government has not held to its promise to make sure that Wales is not a penny worse off as a result of leaving the European Union. Research projects such as that which you've just mentioned are absolutely in the front line of losing that kind of funding, and we are working very hard with them and others to make sure that what we can do to replace at least some part of that can be done. But I cannot urge Members enough here, particularly the Conservative Members, to urge their Government to do more in this space, because we really, really need them to make sure that Wales really is not worse off as a result of us leaving the European Union. And, as we stand today, we certainly do look as if we're very considerably worse off.
I was very impressed by both the national seed bank and the DNA project down at the botanic gardens. Projects such as that are the sorts of scientific advice we need to be able to assist our local authorities and our other landowners across Wales to understand what needs to be done to recover our biodiversity. The seed bank there—I know you were there to look at this as well, Carolyn, at least in part. One of the things that I think Jenny mentioned was the issue about the mowing of grass verges, and so on. Not only do we want councils to very seriously consider not mowing the grass verges, we want them to very seriously consider planting native wildflower species across those verges so that we have pollinator corridors all along our arterial routes. It's very important that they are native seed species as well as just wildflower pollinators for obvious reasons, because we want to enhance the natural biodiversity of our native species. I knew that you were visiting, and I look forward to hearing more from you about your trip down to the botanic gardens in due course, and I hope that we can use it to inform our policy going forward.

And finally, Joyce Watson.

Joyce Watson AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm going to ask a question—one question—and it's about monitoring. The only reason that we all know that nature has declined is because of the longitudinal studies that have taken place that tell us that. And I welcome, obviously, all the new projects; they are to be welcomed. But, we mustn't lose sight of what we've already got. So, my question to you is very clear and very simple: is there money available, and will that money be invested in carrying on those longitudinal studies that tell us where we are now, so we know we're going to arrive at where it is we want to be?

Julie James AC: Diolch, Joyce. Thank you very much for that. I'm delighted to be asked that question. I recently had the privilege of launching with the First Minister the Elsevier report on Wales's research performance on the UN sustainable development goals, and it was a really interesting meeting. I have been shown, as a result of meeting the scientists that were present at the launch, the land cover map for Wales, which is available to Members—and we can make sure that it's placed in the Library or circulated—which does exactly as you've just suggested: it shows the living map of Wales over time. So, it shows us the changing landscape, where the canopy is, where the hedgerows and greens are, and how urban sprawl is changing the nature of the landscape in Wales. So, you're absolutely right: we need to know what we've got now in order to be able to protect what we've got now and enhance it. We also are able, from this map, to see—and I'm afraid it's quite stark—how much has been lost over the last few years, and so it's a good wake-up call. So, I recommend both the Elsevier report and the maps to Members, and I'm very grateful, Joyce, to you for giving me the opportunity to highlight it.

Thank you, Minister.

6. Statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services: Update on COVID-19

Item 6, a statement by the Minister for Health and Social Services, an update on COVID-19. I call on the Minister for Health and Social Services, Eluned Morgan.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd. Thank you very much for the opportunity to update the Chamber on the COVID situation and our plans to keep Wales safe during a difficult autumn and winter ahead.
Now, before I give my update, I'd like to acknowledge World Mental Health Day and thank the Deputy Minister for Mental Health and Well-being for her update on progress of our 'Together for Mental Health' delivery plan earlier today. Mental health is such an important agenda, and more so now than ever in the last 18 months. In what have been unprecedented times, I know how deeply the impact of the pandemic has been felt by so many. And I'd also like to extend my regards to the leader of the Tory party, and my respect for him to come out in the way that he has in terms of his situation. I'm fully committed to improving health and well-being in Wales and it's absolutely right for Wales to have a dedicated Deputy Minister for health and well-being driving these initiatives forward.
On Friday, the First Minister announced the outcome of the 21-day review, and though we remain in alert level 0, there are important protections that have been maintained and strengthened to keep us safe. Coronavirus is still very much with us; since my last update, cases had surged. We still have very high rates of coronavirus in our communities, but I'm pleased to say that in the last week, numbers have fluctuated at around 500 cases per 100,000 people and we've seen similar fluctuating trends in hospital admissions, although noticeably lower numbers than last month. We therefore consider the public health situation to be stable, though we're acutely aware that this could quickly change.
The NHS is still under intense pressure. Our health and care services are still experiencing resource pressures and we still need everyone to play their part and follow the guidance in place to enable Wales to remain open under the lowest level of restrictions. There are very high numbers of infections in younger people and we're monitoring the links between schools and community transmission. Last week, we published strengthened advice and guidance to learners in secondary schools and colleges. When a household member tests positive for COVID-19, in addition to the current advice to take a PCR test on days two and eight, they should in future undertake daily lateral flow tests for seven days. By finding and isolating positive cases, we can help stop onward transmission.
We've also started the vaccination programme for 12 to 15-year-olds. Our incredible vaccination programme has helped weaken the link between infection and serious illness. Vaccination is the best defence we have against coronavirus. Our new vaccination strategy published today sets out how the vaccination programme will continue to deliver effectively and at pace in the autumn and winter months. The strategy focuses on providing boosters for the most vulnerable, vaccinating children and young people and our principle of leaving nobody behind, including those people who are pregnant. Over the summer, we worked with health boards to plan this next phase. This has allowed them to move quickly when confirmation of the booster and vaccination of children was recently announced. This new phase brings us hope.
This week sees the introduction of the COVID pass. With the increase in numbers we saw last month, we continue looking at measures to mitigate the spread of COVID through our communities. None of us wants to see businesses having to shut again. We will of course keep these measures under review to ensure that they remain proportionate.

Eluned Morgan AC: On Friday, we published an updated coronavirus control plan, setting out the main ways in which we will keep Wales safe. Essentially, these are: vaccination, test, trace and protect, and continuation of the basic measures that we can all do to protect ourselves. Our advice around testing is not changing. We still ask you take a PCR test if you develop symptoms of COVID-19, and self-isolate if your result is positive. We are closely monitoring the unprecedented numbers coming forward for tests in Wales. If this level continues, we may need to make choices. But for this review period, our advice remains the same. Testing is the best way to break transmission.
Those basic measures we’ve all been doing throughout the pandemic are still important: washing hands, keeping your distance, wearing face coverings in indoor public places. These vital measures will keep us safer. The control plan sets out two planning scenarios for the pandemic over the winter. In the first, called COVID stable, Wales remains at alert level 0, with all businesses able to open. We expect this will be the scenario for the future, as we become used to living with coronavirus and as we gradually move out of the pandemic. Under this scenario, if case rates fall, measures could be relaxed, but if they rise, existing measures could be strengthened.
The second planning scenario, called COVID urgent, is designed to deal with sudden changes to the situation that would cause a rise in pandemic pressures, which could risk overwhelming our NHS. In this scenario, the alert level system and restrictions would be used proportionately, but as a last resort, to protect people’s health, control the spread of infections and protect the NHS. Dirprwy Lywydd, modelling work suggests that we appear to have passed this peak, but we cannot be complacent at this critical time. In coming months there will be threats from other respiratory infections, such as RSV and seasonal flu. We continue to focus on vaccination for these infections.
We all need to look after our health this winter. It is important that we take the small, achievable steps to keep ourselves healthy and avoid getting ill. This includes being physically active, eating a balanced diet, limiting our alcohol intake, quitting smoking, and of course looking after our mental health. We will work with vaccination centres, GP surgeries and pharmacies over the winter to raise awareness of these messages and signpost people to the support available across Wales.
I would like to end on a positive note. There are no substantial changes to the rules over the next three weeks, beyond those we'd already announced. Everyone has worked so hard to protect themselves and their loved ones, and it is working. We're changing the course of this pandemic together. We aren’t out of this pandemic yet, and the situation could change quickly. But together we can continue with measures in place to keep us on the right track, to protect our NHS and to protect each other. Thank you.

Conservative spokesperson, Russell George.

Russell George AC: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Can I thank the Minister for her statement today, and can I also align myself to the Minister's comments in regard to mental health and the important agenda in that regard as well?
Minister, you mentioned your winter plan. I've mentioned a number of times previously that we need to include diagnosis centres, and I wonder if you could confirm whether that will be included in your plan next week. I wonder what efforts you're also making to ensure that investment and resource sharing is provided to primary care to release pressure from GPs and, ultimately, emergency services. How are you also addressing Healthcare Inspectorate Wales's report into ambulance services?
I will raise one area that is not mentioned in your statement, that is absent from the statement today, and this is the response to this Chamber about the UK Parliament Health and Social Care Committee's report into the handling of the COVID-19 pandemic. This report is almost exclusively centred around the UK Government's response, mentioning Wales only nine times, but it demonstrates, in my view, the urgency of the need for a Wales-specific inquiry. Throughout the pandemic, the First Minister has repeatedly said that Wales was doing things differently. You yourself mentioned the same today in respect of the very report I've just mentioned. So, I will ask: will you make a comment today to the Chamber about a Wales-specific inquiry in the context of what I've just said and this report today?
Your Government's decisions, good or bad, have decided the outcome of the pandemic. In relation to my next question, I'll raise a few points here. Wales has the highest death rate across the UK in terms of COVID-19 in terms of the population. The First Minister actually said that he saw no value in testing care homes a full two weeks after the UK Government significantly expanded their testing regime. The then health Minister said:
'I don’t understand the rationale in terms of how…it saves more lives for the way that the testing policy has been changed in England'.
The First Ministerthen said that face coverings were not a silver bullet, nearly two months after the UK Government introduced mandatory face masks. And finally, the previous health Minister was charged with reducing hospital-acquired infections going through our hospitals last winter, saying that lessons had been learned throughout, and we ended up with nearly a quarter of deaths from COVID picked up from infections in hospitals. These issues here are as a result of Wales doing things differently. There will be good, there will be bad things in terms of Wales doing things differently. But of the areas I've specifically mentioned that I have raised, do you think that they would be adequately addressed in a UK-wide public inquiry?
Also, I think your Government needs to learn lessons from the pandemic, as indeed all Government across the UK, of course, need to do. But the Westminster committee raised a very pertinent but valid point, I think, for the Welsh Government, and I quote here:
'The fact that the UK approach reflected a consensus between official scientific advisers and the Government indicates a degree of groupthink that was present at the time which meant we were not as open to approaches being taken elsewhere as we should have been.'
So, not open to other opinions. We've heard again today from yourself and the First Minister that Wales was following the science. Was the Government wrong to take this approach? And the final—[Interruption.] Well, that's a question that is a valid question to be asked. This is a question that's put forward by a cross—[Interruption.] I can see the Minister laughing. I'm sorry, but this was a question raised by a Westminster inquiry of all parties. I think it's a valid question to ask. I'm not making a suggestion; I'm asking that question that I think need to be addressed today.
Finally, Minister, you also mentioned COVID passports. I've been contacted by the National Autistic Society, and they've raised quite important points regarding COVID passes. People with disabilities such as autism are at risk of being discriminated against is the charge that they make, due to being unable to be vaccinated or tested due to behavioural changes or sensory difficulties, and this can cause, of course, as you'll understand, stress if people in those groups think they're being excluded. Routine, of course, is very important for people particularly in that group as well. So, will there be exemptions for people who are unable to vaccinated or tested for medical reasons, as is the case in Scotland, and if not, how do you plan to cater for these specific groups of people, Minister?

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr iawn. Thank you for those questions. On the winter plan, I'm afraid you're going to have to wait for that to be published. So, good try, trying to get some information out of us, but we'll let you know when we're ready to publish that. You've only got a few more days to go. There is considerable pressure on GPs at the moment. That is undoubtedly the case. That's why we've got a huge programme of publicity going on at the moment, trying to inform the public on where they can go to get help. There are alternatives to GPs, and you heard the First Minister this morning—[Interruption.]

No interventions—[Inaudible.]

Eluned Morgan AC: You heard the First Minister this morning talking about the fact that, actually, we need to wean ourselves off this assumption that you will always see a GP. There are people who are as good, as qualified, who can support us with our health needs who are alternatives to GPs, and we need to understand that.
You mentioned very briefly ambulance services. It's impossible for me to go through all of the points that you made, but you're aware that we have a whole programme of work that we're undertaking in relation to ambulance, trying to improve the situation with ambulances. We've spent an additional £25 million in terms of recurrent funding, huge numbers of ambulance workers have been recruited, there's been the creation of urgent primary care centres—so, lots of things are ongoing to try and take the pressure off our ambulance services.
Turning to the UK report, yes, you're absolutely right, it's a report that looks at the situation in the UK, but isn't it interesting that you come straight in here and try and throw the problems here at us in Wales? The fact is that they outline a situation like the fact that they should have taken a more cautious approach. Well, I think most people in Wales would understand that we have taken a more cautious approach than they have in the UK.The other thing, of course, isthat we do have discussions in our Cabinet that I think are robust but are respectful, and we don't have groupthink. Part of the issue in the UK has been that there has been such an emphasis and such a focus on trying to keep the economy going that sometimes they've lost sight of the importance of public health. Getting that balance right, I think, has been something that we have tried to get right within the situation in Wales.
The other thing that they mention in this report is the fact that, actually, everything is too centralised. You've only got to look at the test, trace and protect system; the ridiculous amounts of money that they spent on that system in England, on private companies that have been completely ineffective when you compare them to us working in partnership with local government to drive a system that has been massively effective. I think it's very important that people understand that, actually, we are not in the same situation, as Wales. And you will be aware, also, that the First Minister has asked Michael Gove, in a letter, to set out, 'These are the things that we would like to see you address if there is going to be a public inquiry for the UK—we want these things to be set out.' Now, we're still waiting for an answer to that letter. I think it's absolutely clear that if there is a respect for looking at the kind of detail that the Welsh public will want to see, and we will want to see, then I think we will be able to go with the UK. If that doesn't happen, then of course we don't want to be a footnote in the UK public inquiry. I think that's enough on that one. Thank you.

Plaid Cymru spokesperson, Rhun ap Iorwerth.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Thank you very much, Deputy Llywydd.

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: Today is a pretty sobering day, isn't it, with the publication of that report by Members of the UK Parliament saying that the UK Government's response to the pandemic was one of the 'worst ever' public health failures. Those are pretty strong words. There's hardly a reference to Wales in that report—I'll get back to that in a second—but many of the questions around the response to the pandemic are just as relevant to Welsh Government, of course, including what happened in those very early days, and questions have been asked publicly today about that, both here in the Senedd by my colleague Adam Price, and also by journalists in the press conference earlier.
We have heard some contrasting responses about the pace of response here in Wales; the First Minister, during First Minister's questions, saying, 'We just didn't know how serious this was,' although I think we did, or the health Minister saying, 'We did know, but it was very difficult for Wales to act without England acting too.' Now, I'm not sure how you square those two responses, but the truth of the matter is, these questions have not been asked in depth. Members of Parliament at Westminster have had a go, as I say, in this report, which mentions Wales nine times, I think, isn't it, in 147 pages. But these are questions that the Welsh public expect to be looked at in depth, and the only way to do that, as has been proven again, I think, by this report today—. The way to do that in depth on these questions about the initial response, and so many of the questions about the response over the past 18 months, is to have a Wales-specific inquiry.
Now, I have met, on a number of occasions now, including once in person with representatives of the Covid-19 Bereaved Families for Justice campaign. I'm pleased that the First Minister has also met them now. And their central argument is this. It's very, very simple: decisions taken in Wales must be scrutinised in Wales. It's a very, very easy principle for me to get my head around. If I can get my head around it, I think most people can. Decisions taken in Wales need to be scrutinised in Wales. Now, perhaps the Minister can tell us now whether there has been a response now, or even an acknowledgement to the letter written by the First Minister to UK Government, seeking assurances about how Wales would somehow fit in and have enough focus on it as part of a UK inquiry. And can I ask, how long is Welsh Government prepared to wait for a response before deciding, 'You know what; we're going to have to do this ourselves and set up a Welsh inquiry'? It is the only answer.
I'd like to focus, secondly, onone word that we heard a few times from the Minister today: 'stable'—the situation in Wales currently is stable. Can I suggest, actually, we need three categories, not just 'COVID-stable' and 'COVID-urgent' going into this winter? This is urgent. This is urgent today. We perhaps need a 'COVID-crisis' if things become even worse, but we are in an urgent position. And let me just remind people what 'stable' looks like. Wales currently: over 500 cases per 100,000 people over a seven-day period—that's worse than any other nation in the UK; it's three times, almost, the figure for Ireland, almost six times the case rate for the Netherlands, almost 12 times the case rate for France and 20 times the case rate for Spain. The case rate for under 25s in Wales is double the average for Wales at nearly 1,000. Seven counties in Wales, including the one that I represent, have case rates of over 1,000. If that is not urgent, I do not know what is.
So, perhaps I can just pose these questions in closing. When does current Welsh Government strategy envisage we'll get down to levels in France, in Spain, in Italy and in any other western European country you could mention? Is getting there as quickly as possible even a part of the strategy? Or is stable, steady-as-she-goes the way things are going to be approached from now on? For example, we suggested last week that we could strengthen the COVID pass system, perhaps, as a means to ramp things up. What evidence can the Minister point to to show or to even suggest that the Welsh Government is trying to do everything it can to get those case rates down to the levels of our western European partners, because—

Can the Member conclude now?

Rhun ap Iorwerth AC: —seeing the virus running riot in Welsh schools currently, and hearing from the parents who are scared and from the teachers who are scared about the continuing levels of the virus among young people and children in particular is something that we really need to continue to focus on?

Eluned Morgan AC: Thanks very much. I'm not sure which press conference you were listening to, but I can assure you that I was very clear, I made it clear that it was a disease that we'd never seen before, none of us knew how it was going to impact, none of us knew how it was going to spread and none of us knew that you could spread this problem without showing any symptoms.
We've been over this ground before in terms of a Welsh inquiry. You know our position. Our position is that we would like a very clear and comprehensive view of what has happened in Wales, but we want that to be seen in the context of the UK Government and what happened there. And the reason for that is, as this has demonstrated today with the publication of this report, is that actually, there is a huge amount of crossover between what was happening in the UK and what was happening in Wales. Now, the First Minister met with people who lost loved ones last week to coronavirus. It was, I'm sure, a very sensitive and difficult meeting and he gave them some assurances there that if the UK Government does not listen to the Welsh Government then, of course, he will think again about the situation in relation to a Welsh inquiry. But that's not where we're at. It would be less rude if we got an answer to a question and a letter to our First Minister, and clearly, that would be something that would be very helpful. So, if you've got any friends in the UK Government, ask them to speed it up, if you wouldn't mind.
You talk to me about urgency; let me tell you about urgency. The rates amongst young people—you're absolutely right—are incredibly high. Last week, you wanted to postpone and procrastinate because of a COVID pass, because you wanted to strengthen it. That's not urgent, that's taking your time. We wanted to move and thank goodness we were able to move. Let me be clear, the rates are starting to go down, but the responsibility here is also on the public to help us. They know what they need to do to keep themselves safe. We all know what our own responsibilities are here, but vaccination is one of our key methods of keeping people safe, that's why we've got the booster vaccine being given at the moment. We've got the 12- to 15-year-olds receiving their vaccination. And of course, then, we have a very comprehensive test, trace and protect mechanism in place to try and curtail the spread of the virus. So, we do have lots of mechanisms at our disposal that we are using very comprehensively to try and get a grip on the situation.

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: Minister, thank you for your statement. I reiterate what you say in your penultimate paragraph: everyone has worked hard to protect themselves and their loved ones, and it's working. We are changing the course of this pandemic together. It's important to say this because that reminder to people about how much they have done together and how much we have still got to do to get through this autumn and winter and next spring as well—.
I will be off to a venue this week for the first time since the pandemic has been had. I will be watching a show. I won't say which one because my fans will come there and mob me, I know. But, they are asking me to do a lateral flow test. It's not a problem at all. If they need to see my double vaccine certificate, that's not a problem as well. If that keeps that venue open through the winter and through the spring, and keeps the staff and the other audience members safe, then you know, that's a good job. That's part of my responsibility as well.
But, could I ask the Minister what she is doing across Government at the moment in terms of social and behavioural analysis? Not the technical things, not the direct measures, not the regulations and so on, but that analysis of what will help people do the right thing, and continue to do the right thing. The threat perception has changed, and that's partly because of the success of the vaccine roll-out. Social norms are shifting a little bit. But, there are ways in which this can be done because we have done it so well already. The messaging, the leadership, sometimes the penalties—

Can the Member conclude?

Huw Irranca-Davies AC: So, I'd ask the Minister what work she is doing on social and behavioural science to actually make sure that we can get through this all together safely.

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Huw. Thank you for recognising that, because of the COVID passes, we are hopefully able to keep some of those venues open that may otherwise have faced closure. Certainly what we are very pleased to see is that, actually, there has been a considerable amount of social and behavioural science associated with our whole approach here. We have comprehensive research that has been done into what it is that nudges people into behaving in a different way.
We have a really active campaign that has been ongoing for a number of weeks now, 'Help Us Help You', trying to help people to direct them to the right places for support, in particular if they are ill, but also to make sure that they look after themselves this winter. We can all eat better. We can all get fitter. I think that it is really important that we understand our responsibilities in this as well. Also, we have a 'Keep Wales safe this winter' campaign. So, it's really important that people engage with that. When people are getting their booster vaccinations, I'm hoping that they will also be given some advice in terms of public health and how to protect themselves this winter.

Heledd Fychan AS: Minister, you referenced in your statement that the NHS is still under intense pressure. Many residents in the Cynon valley have contacted me to raise concerns that the A&E local to them at the Prince Charles Hospital has been under extreme pressure during the pandemic. Even now as we speak, there is an average time of eight hours and 15 minutes for people to be seen there, and 70 patients waiting to be seen.
The situation has worsened since the closure of the minor injuries unit as Ysbyty Cwm Cynon since 8 September, which was due to staff shortages. Today, it has been reported to me that this temporary closure will now be permanent. Is the Minister able to confirm this report? And, if it is the case that the minor injuries unit is being permanently closed, what is the Minister's view of a health board downgrading local services permanently during a pandemic, and adding to the pressures on other services such as the A&E at the Prince Charles Hospital?

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr, Heledd. Can I just make it clear that our NHS services are under intense pressure at the moment? It's not because they are not working hard. They are working incredibly hard, as they have done for 18 months. Frankly, these people are already exhausted. A lot of them are off sick. A lot of them have COVID. So, you have to understand that, every time that that happens, there is more pressure on the people who stay. So, I would ask the public in Wales to act sensibly and to be sensitive to the fact that the people on our front line are now really facing a very, very difficult winter.
I do think that we have to understand that that means that, sometimes, we are going to see the need for those services to be concentrated in some areas because of the staff pressures that are happening. So, I do feel that it's important that people understand that, as we’ve seen this week in south Wales, maternity units are having to really concentrate their efforts because of that staffing situation. So, I would ask people to really, just during this time, be understanding of the severe pressure on our systems at the moment.

Finally, Mabon ap Gwynfor.

Mabon ap Gwynfor AS: Thank you, Deputy Presiding Officer. Minister, I think you and the Government are being slightly unfair in saying that no-one knew what was to come at the beginning of last year and that it's easy to use hindsight, as the First Minister mentioned earlier. I think we all saw the pictures coming from Italy at the beginning of the year, and from China too, and everyone had a pretty good idea of what we were facing. But, in addition to that, thanks to Dr Moosa Qureshi, we know that the UK Government held a thorough preparation for a coronavirus event, and that was five years ago, and it was called Exercise Alice. This apparently warned us of the need to stock PPE and the need for a thorough test and trace system, among many other things. And if the report in The Guardian is to be believed, the Welsh Government were witness to that exercise and accepted the recommendations. So, why didn't the Government take action on those recommendations, Minister?

Eluned Morgan AC: Diolch yn fawr. I think it’s unfair to say that we knew lots about COVID when it arrived. The very fact that we didn’t know for a long time that people could carry COVID and they were asymptomatic—that was something that we learnt much later on, after it had arrived, just as one example of things that we’ve learned. If you read the report that’s come from the House of Commons today, one of the things that it does say is that the UK’s pandemic planning was too narrowly and inflexibly based on a flu model and failed to learn the lessons from SARS, MERS and Ebola. It doesn’t mention the report that you are talking about. So, I think it’ll be interesting to see why this committee didn’t pick up on the report that you’re talking about. So, that’s certainly something that I’ll go and look at after this question.

Diolch, Weinidog. It appears that the—. Ah, we have the Minister.

7. The Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021

Item 7 is the Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021. I call on the Minister for Climate Change to move the motion. Julie James.

Motion NDM7796 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd, in accordance with Standing Order 27.5:
1. Approves that the draft The Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021 is made in accordance with the draft laid in the Table Office on 21 September 2021.

Motion moved.

Julie James AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. Generally, persons subject to immigration control are not eligible for allocation of social housing or to homelessness assistance. The Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) Regulations 2014, known as 'the 2014 regulations', prescribe classes of persons who, despite being subject to immigration control, are classed as eligible for housing accommodation and housing assistance. They also prescribe classes of persons who, despite not being subject to immigration control, would nevertheless be ineligible; for example, if they were not habitually resident here and only recently returned.
The draft Allocation of Housing and Homelessness (Eligibility) (Wales) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2021—these regulations—will provide two new classes of people subject to immigration control with eligibility to an allocation of housing and access to housing assistance. These are people with a Hong Kong British National (Overseas), or BNO, visa who become destitute and have obtained a change to their immigration status enabling them to access public funds, and people entering the UK from Afghanistan under certain Home Office schemes or policies who have recently left Afghanistan due to the collapse of the Afghan Government. However, those who are subject to a maintenance or sponsorship undertaking would not be made eligible. These regulations will also provide that those who are arriving from Afghanistan and are not subject to immigration control, but would be excluded for lack of habitual residence, are instead eligible for assistance. For convenience, we describe those arriving or returning from Afghanistan and covered by these regulations as the Afghan arrivals/returnees cohort.
Members will be aware that the UK Government created a new pathway for people from Hong Kong to come to the UK because of the Chinese Government’s national security legislation and the affect it will have on the rights and freedoms of the people of Hong Kong. Members will also be acutely aware of the impact and harm that has resulted from the toppling of the Afghan Government by the Taliban regime and how this is also affecting the rights and freedoms of the people of Afghanistan, in particular those Afghans who supported the work of the UK in their country, as well as women and girls, which has led to the creation of an immigration route for some of the Afghan arrivals or returnees cohort. These regulations will ensure that the cohort will be eligible for assistance from day one, rather than having to habitually be resident here.
Though the ties that exist between Hong Kong and Afghanistan with the UK, and, by extension, Wales, are very different, they are nonetheless deep and long-standing. Those relationships mean that we have a commitment to the people of Hong Kong and Afghanistan, and this is why we wish to support those coming here and who require help. Many of the BNO visa holders and the Afghan arrivals/returnees cohort are already in the country, so I hope Members will understand the need for us to amend the 2014 regulations in case those who have made Wales their new home have need of housing or housing assistance.
If Members support the motion, local authorities in Wales, working with their partners, will now be able to provide the support that will make it easier for people from Hong Kong and the Afghan arrivals/returnees cohort to settle within Wales. Diolch.

There are no speakers for this item. Minister, do you wish to say anything else? No. Therefore, the proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. Therefore, the motion is agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

8. Debate: The Children’s Commissioner for Wales Annual Report 2020-21

Item 8, a debate on the Children's Commissioner for Wales's annual report 2020-21. I call on the Minister for Social Justice to move the motion. Jane Hutt.

Motion NDM7797 Lesley Griffiths
To propose that the Senedd:
Notes the Children’s Commissioner for Wales's Annual Report 2020-21.

Motion moved.

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch, Dirprwy Lywydd. I'm pleased to have the opportunity to debate the Children’s Commissioner for Wales's annual report for 2020-21 today. And the publication of Professor Sally Holland's annual report provides an important opportunity for us to collectively focus on children's rights. It's a time to take stock of progress and to take account of the commissioner's calls for us to go further. And this last year has been like no other, particularly for children and young people. The impact of the pandemic continues to affect their lives and the lives of their families. I'm extremely grateful to the children's commissioner for her independent role in championing the rights of children during this difficult time.
The commissioner and her team have consistently prioritised the needs of all children and young people in Wales, ensuring their voices are heard and their rights are respected. This has been evident in the engagement the children's commissioner has had with the Welsh Government over the course of the pandemic. The commissioner has retained a relentless focus on children and young people during this crisis, and has worked constructively throughout with Ministers and officials. And this has allowed us to work through difficult issues, ensuring children and young people's needs are taken into account and their rights protected. And I would like to take this opportunity to thank the children's commissioner and her team for their work on the 'Coronavirus and Me' surveys of children and young people.
The commissioner, working in partnership with Welsh Government, the Youth Parliament and Children in Wales, led a project to hear directly how the pandemic was affecting the health, education and social aspects of young people's lives. Nearly 44,000 responses were received in May 2020 and January 2021, ensuring children's voices have been heard during the pandemic. The commissioner used the surveys as an opportunity to listen to the views of children from black, Asian and minority ethnic backgrounds and disabled children. The survey findings highlighted several areas where black, Asian and minority ethnic children and young people's access to their rights was not equal to their white Welsh or British counterparts, and this included their ability to exercise and play, staying in contact with friends and family, food insecurity, and worries about implications for their learning. These findings show us the role racism, discrimination and disadvantage play in these young people's experiences, and focuses us on the need for action in the race equality action plan for an anti-racist Wales. The findings from all the surveys were used cross Government, including when difficult choices needed to be made about restrictions on children's daily lives.
I'd also like to thank the Deputy Minister for Social Services for her extensive work with the children's commissioner. The Deputy Minister meets regularly with the commissioner, as does the First Minister and other members of Cabinet, and this ongoing engagement has helped us to retain a clear focus on the rights of children and young people in our work, especially during the pandemic.
The commissioner published her annual report for 2020-21 last week with a number of calls to action, including in relation to mental health, and I hope that we can use our time today to explore those areas where the commissioner has made calls for us to go further in our work. The report outlines the achievements of her office over the last financial year and their ongoing activity to respond to the pandemic, and this includes her first formal review of Welsh Government's exercise of its functions. She used her formal powers in relation to elective home education and safeguarding in independent schools. Welsh Government responded to her review in March this year.
This annual report includes 18 recommendations for the Welsh Government. These include recommendations relating to care-experienced children, education, children's health, the youth justice blueprint and the unpaid carersstrategy. And this debate today will give Members of the Senedd the opportunity to express their views on the commissioner's report and to comment on the areas the commissioner has raised. I'd like to welcome the breadth and depth of the recommendations. However, I won't be discussing the specifics of our response to them today. The First Minister will publish the Welsh Government's response to the commissioner's annual report by 30 November.
Before Members debate this report, it is important to state that some of the recommendations the commissioner's put forward remain affected by the coronavirus pandemic, and there are some areas where we have not seen the progress we would have liked because of the need to pause or reprioritise workloads. Despite this, our intentions remain resolute. We are proud of our history in Wales, with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child continuing to be the basis for our policy for children. It's central to our approach to our work to improve children's outcomes, by helping and supporting them to achieve their full potential.
Deputy Llywydd, I would like to take this opportunity to acknowledge that Professor Sally Holland's term as commissioner comes to an end in April next year, so this will be her last annual report. I'd therefore like to thank the commissioner for everything she's done to assist children and young people throughout her seven-year term. She's been a tireless advocate on behalf of children and young people and a champion of their rights and well-being. We are currently going through the process to appoint Sally's successor on a cross-party basis, and the First Minister will aim to make an announcement in the new year.
In conclusion, I look forward to this important debate, as we focus on the children's commissioner's independent report and our progress in supporting children's rights across Wales. The commissioner's independent role is vital, and we will continue to work with her office for the benefit of all children and young people in Wales. Diolch.

I call on the Chair of the Children, Young People, and Education Committee, Jayne Bryant.

Jayne Bryant AC: Diolch, Deputy Llywydd. I'm pleased to speak in this Plenary debate for the first time in my capacity as Chair of the Children, Young People, and Education Committee. I hope to build on the work of the predecessor committee and Chair, who, throughout their five-year term, demonstrated the value of effective committee scrutiny in driving through important changes to improve the lives of children and young people in Wales. As a committee, we have not yet had the opportunity to scrutinise the children's commissioner on her annual report. We will hold that session on 18 November.
As this is the current commissioner's last annual report, I'd like to thank her and her team for all their work over the past six and a half years in advocating for the rights of children and young people in Wales. I'd also like to echo the words of the children's commissioner, in her foreword to the report, to thank all those front-line workers who've supported, nurtured, cared for and educated children and young people throughout this pandemic, and, of course, to pay tribute to the nearly 700,000 children and young people in Wales who have shown resilience way beyond their years over the past 18 months.
We're all aware that the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child underpins all the work that the commissioner does. The right for children to express their views about things that affect them, and have their opinions taken into account when decisions are made, is well understood. And, as the Minister mentioned, a very rare example of this in practice has been the 'Coronavirus and Me' surveys that the commissioner has run over the pandemic, with 44,000 children and young people contributing to them over the reporting period. And we will certainly be taking into account some of these findings as we look to devise and refine our strategic plan as a committee.
It's also very reassuring to see the commissioner state that, despite the pandemic, her office were able to deliver all the pre-pandemic objectives, whilst also doing additional work that arose because of the pandemic. The report also sets out a number of recommendations across a wide range of policy areas. I'm sure that, as a committee, some of these will be areas we will explore in more detail over the coming months and years.
Today, I'd like to seek some further detail from the Welsh Government on how they intend to respond to those recommendations as they relate to children in care. I'm highlighting these as they relate to clear programme for government commitments. The programme for government commits to eliminate private profit from the care of looked-after children. The commissioner calls for a road map to be brought forward by April next year to set out the timescale and action for delivering on this. Can the Minister indicate whether such a road map will be published within the timescale, and if not, why not? In the annual report, the commissioner calls for the Government to bring forward swiftly statutory entitlements and policy for care leavers as a coherent package. I welcome the commitment from the Deputy Minister in our committee last week that the Government intends to legislate in this Senedd term to ensure that every care leaver is entitled to a personal adviser up to the age of 25. Can the Minister outline today what other elements of the package of support they intend to make available to care leavers?
Once again, I'd like to thank thecommissioner and her team for all their hard work, detailed in the annual report. The commissioner's role as an independent champion, advocating for children's rights and well-being, has been crucial. I look forward to exploring the report in more detail with the commissioner and the committee members on 18 November. Diolch yn fawr.

Joel James MS: Firstly, I would like to start by thanking the children's commissioner for all her hard work and dedication throughout her time in office. I'd also thank her and her staff for preparing this report. Sadly, like many other sections of society, children, particularly vulnerable children whose conditions may have been made worse by the substantial changes they have faced during the COVID pandemic, have suffered disproportionately, and it is certainly recognised that the children's commissioner has genuinely attempted to address many of the issues that they and their families have faced. Indeed, I've read the commissioner's report with much interest, and it is very pleasing to see the care and attention that she has been giving to so many aspects of child welfare.
Personally speaking, I was also pleased to see mentioned the round-table event that was held earlier this year and gave a platform to younger deaf people to voice their concerns. As Members may or may not be aware, I've spoken publicly about the hearing difficulties that I faced growing up and the impact it has had on my learning. As you can tell from what I wear around my neck, it is still something that has an impact on me, and as a result I'm very keen to see improvements delivered within this area. As such, I understand, for many years, that the deaf community have shared with the commissioner's office their frustrations that the needs of the community are not being addressed, and although the report highlighted some engagement, it nonetheless did not make any specific recommendations for deaf children. I believe this to be a shame, given the amount of work and effort that has been put into it by the deaf community to get the Welsh Government to make adequate provision for their needs.
So, with that in mind, I would like to take this opportunity to re-emphasise the need for a national charter in Wales to help with the delivery of services and resources, including education, for deaf children, young people and their families. Such a charter would enable local authorities to plan and resource support within a nationally recognised framework and help to ensure a consistency of provision throughout Wales. Likewise, we need to formally recognise that, in Wales, British Sign Language is the first language of deaf people, and we urgently need to address the concerns that they have raised about the standard and quality of British Sign Language for specialist education professionals.
Towards the end of the fifth Senedd, my colleague Mark Isherwood proposed a Bill that seeks to ensure that the deaf community and people with hearing loss have a voice in the design and delivery of services to ensure that they meet the needs of service users, with actions including the establishment of a BSL national advisory group, for example. The Bill had cross-party support, and I know it was one that many deaf people were eagerly anticipating to be introduced, but, sadly, the Government has yet to bring it forward. On behalf of all those who suffer from hearing loss and their families and supporters, can I now make a call for this Government to commit to introducing the British Sign Language Bill for Wales during this Senedd term? Many deaf people who use BSL lack access to education, health services, employment and other public services, and it's widely reported that a large percentage of deaf people struggle with achieving higher educational attainment, which can affect them throughout their lives. Given the impact of what proper and correct support can achieve in helping deaf children live an active and full life, I believe that it's vital that we put this into place—this legislation.
Finally, I would also like address the issue mentioned in the commissioner's report of how long the Welsh Government is taking to bring forward statutory entitlements and policies for care leavers as a coherent package. The Government agreed with the recommendations of the 'Hidden Ambitions' report in 2017, which is almost five years ago, yet they've still not implemented those amendments to the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014 that were proposed. Likewise, the Government was also asked to develop national standards to address concerns of quality, sufficiency and suitability of semi-independent accommodation for care-experienced young people up to the age of 25 by its joint housing and social services group, but progress on these proposals has seemingly stopped.
The Future Generations Commissioner for Wales commented in her report that there is an implementation gap between the aspirations set out by the Welsh Government in policy and legislation and its commitment to drive and resource delivery on the ground. And it appears that it's the same story here as well. The Minister, I'm sure, should be very conscious as to how disrespectful this is to not only all those who have put in so much time and effort at the behest of this Government, but to all those children and young people who are being failed also in receiving the appropriate care that they need. This Government has agreed to the recommendations that they have asked for, and yet you have done very little in terms of implementing them. I believe the issue of caring for the health and well-being of our children and young people should transcend party-political lines, but the fact that the commissioner still needs to make calls for this legislation to be implemented is obscene. Can the Minister explain to all those young people who would have benefited from the implementation of this recommended legislation why this Government has continually failed to implement it? I'm also wondering whether the Minister would actually be brave enough to make an apology for this and recommit to implement the recommendations that were agreed to so long ago. Thank you.

Siân Gwenllian AC: Thank you for the opportunity to discuss this report. I would like to focus on specific aspects of the report, namely those that need urgent attention and those that haven't received attention yet this afternoon. I'd like to take this opportunity to ask the Minister for her comments, accepting of course that the full official response isn't available yet.
Turning first of all to children who are excluded or suspended from school. How on earth is it possible that we need to exclude a child of three years of age, a child of five years of age, or a child who is seven years of age from school? How do we need to exclude 768 children who are between the ages of three and seven over a period of a year? These figures from the children's commissioner are frightening, and it's clear that the same process of exclusion should not be implemented for young children as for older pupils up to the age of 16—even though we need to raise questions about the process for older children as well, by the way. But, in terms of the younger children, the commissioner has found that one child was excluded 18 times in a year. We're not talking about a statistic here, we're talking about a child, and it is clear that exclusion for a child time and time again doesn't get to the heart of the problem, nor does it respond to that child's needs. These children need to be supported, not turned away, and the Government needs to implement a policy to prevent the exclusion of children under the age of eight, and we need to review the exclusion guidelines for older children as well. I would like to hear this afternoon that this is a concern and that there is work under way to respond to the situation.
Another issue that causes concern as a result of the annual report is the reform of the youth justice system. The commissioner states clearly that there hasn't been sufficient progress and, importantly, there's been very slow progress towards that youth justice blueprint. During the pandemic, the commissioner drew attention to children who were held in custody and who were losing their rights, or missing out on their rights. So, may we know what the timeline is for the full introduction of the blueprint, and, in the meantime, how much of a concern is it for the Government that there isn't an emphasis on alternative methods, rather than holding children in custody? There aren't sufficient opportunities for those restorative justice systems.Now, the commissioner also drew attention to the problem of children from Wales being held in custody in England, and it would be good to hear about the progress made with that particular problem.
Turning to another issue, namely the registration of staff in independent schools with the Education Workforce Council, or indeed the lack of progress towards implementing this to safeguard pupils, especially to safeguard girls from sexual harassment. It's been a matter of concern for the commissioner for some time, and I do share that concern. Plaid Cymru has been sharing this concern that the Government is so slow in solving this problem of registration, so it would be good to hear that the Government at last is going to implement the twelfth recommendation of the children's commissioner's annual report, to safeguard school pupils in Wales.
And I turn finally to another issue of concern, namely children who are educated at home. The commissioner has stated that the secondary legislation that the Government intends to introduce on elective home education, that this secondary legislation is insufficient and doesn't go far enough in terms of safeguarding the rights of children. I'd like to know what the rationale is behind not following the advice of the commissioner to bring forward primary legislation on this issue. I know that there's a lack of time within the legislative timetable, but perhaps there might be other reasons for being so unwilling to take robust action in this area. So, I'd like to hear the Minister's comments on these areas, please. May I thank the commissioner very much for her tireless work, continuing to press for these changes that are needed? The sadness is that we are still discussing these issues and that we still need to see action being taken.

Jane Dodds. Can we unmute? Thank you.

Jane Dodds AS: Thank you very much, Deputy Presiding Officer, and I'd also like to thank Sally Holland.

Jane Dodds AS: Thank you for all your work, not just throughout the past year, which has been an exceptionally difficult year, but since being appointed in 2015.
I'd just like to focus on one small issue, and again, I'm asking the Minister to look at a road map in relation to this particular issue, and that is children in care. The number of children looked after in Wales has increased by 38 per cent over the last decade to over 6,000 children looked after in Wales as of March two years ago, and we expect that the figures more recently will show an additional increase. The children's commissioner first called for the Welsh Government to take action on residential care in 2016, and despite this recommendation being accepted by the Welsh Government in 2017 and 2018, progress on taking steps to phase out profit in children's residential care services has been very slow. However, I do feel hopeful that work on this complex area will progress, especially after my legislative motion on this very issue passed through the Senedd before the summer recess.
In spring 2021, the Welsh Government published their White Paper on 'Rebalancing care and support', which proposes developing a national social care framework to set fair commissioning practices for providers. This is coupled with a strong Welsh Labour manifesto pledge to eliminate private profit from the care of looked-after children during this Senedd term. The Welsh Government must now bring forward this road map by 1 April 2022, which will set out the timescales and actions that they will begin to safely phase profit out of children's social care provision. So, I would like to ask the Minister: when will we have that road map to realise this ambition? I do totally understand the complexity of these issues and don't want to disrupt the process, but we do need formal proposals being brought forward by the Welsh Government. Thank you. Diolch yn fawr iawn.

Gareth Davies AS: Good evening, everybody. I would just like to thank the children's commissioner and her staff for their ongoing work to protect the rights of Welsh children, and for the dedication they have shown throughout this past year. I do, however, have an issue with the stance taken over independent care providers. The private sector provides eight out of every 10 placements for children in care. Given the vast black hole that exists in funding for social services, we cannot expect the public sector to step in. Local authorities were already struggling with cost pressures prior to the pandemic. Services for looked-after children are woefully underfunded and funding shortfalls will be much worse as we emerge from the pandemic.
The WLGA have stated that local authorities are concerned about the demands that will be placed upon services as we emerge from the lockdown. There is still a backlog of court cases that is adding to the challenges faced in making appropriate and sustainable placements for looked-after children and young people. Without private providers, the situation would be much worse. Despite the private sector providing 80 per cent of placements, we still, sadly, saw over 365 children placed outside Wales last year. The problem isn't with the care providers, it's with the system. After all, our NHS and our care system is founded on the principle of public and private sectors working hand in hand together. Without the private sector, we would have no GPs, no dentists, no opticians, no medicines, and large numbers of children and young people without any care.
Lack of funding and, more importantly, demand are the major issues facing looked-after children's care. Just last week, the Auditor General for Wales outlined a stark fact: the number of looked-after children in Wales has increased by two thirds since 2004. The Wales Centre for Public Policy found that Wales has consistently had a higher number of looked-after children than the rest of the UK, and the gap is continuing to widen. It has also found that there is local variation in the number of looked-after children, with numbers in some council areas remaining steady or falling. They found that some of the variation was due to differing social work practices and policies across councils. The centre also found that Welsh judges are more likely than their UK counterparts to make orders allowing councils to take children into care, and I would ask Sally Holland and her team to focus on tackling this disparity.
Why are children in Wales more likely to end up in care? We all know that children in care are more likely to suffer poorer outcomes. While it's right that we should do everything in our power to improve the life chances of care leavers, the best action we can take is to prevent children from going into care in the first place and remembering that prevention should be our main focus. Thank you very much.

Sioned Williams MS: The children's commissioner's annual report notes that groups of children currently face inequality due to a variety of factors, but it's on the effect of poverty that I'd like to focus. I welcome this report, and I really urge the Welsh Government to consider its recommendations with the sense of urgency that is suggested, particularly in regard to the expansion of eligibility for free school meals. Given Westminster's cruel decision to cut universal credit last week by £20, and the lack of interest, it seems, in truly addressing fuel poverty, we know Welsh children will be suffering this winter through absolutely no fault of their own. The Welsh Government has a duty to govern in the interests of the people of Wales, and so a failure to protect the poorest and most vulnerable from Tory austerity would be a gross abdication of this basic responsibility. There's also a need for Welsh Government to implement the principles it claims to represent—the principle of universality, for example, which was crucial to the establishment of the NHS and the welfare state, needs to be adopted if we are to end child poverty and the disadvantages it causes, which are outlined by this report.
On the issue of tackling child poverty, the report states that the commissioner had recommended that the Government publish a delivery plan, but the Government had rejected this. The report notes that the Government had undertaken their own child poverty internal review and found that not everyone was accessing their full entitlements. There is low awareness of entitlements, exacerbated by literacy and language barriers, and the programmes restricted by postcode/area exclude some people in need. Introducing universal policies such as free school meals for all children in state schools would go a long way in tackling these issues. The example given in the report of a family who went without any payments for free school meals during lockdown for six months due to a local authority cross-boundary issue and changes to local authority policy clearly shows why implementing a universal free-school-meal system would ensure no Welsh families would find themselves in need in this way. So, the question must be asked why the Welsh Government thus far has not done so, given it's supposed commitment to socialist principles, the widespread calls by anti-poverty and children's rights campaigners to do so, and the large and international body of evidence that points to the transformational effect of universal free school meals. There can be no doubt that the Government needs to take urgent action on child poverty. More of the same won't cut it. Bold action is needed if we are to end this moral stain on our society. The recommendation of the children's commissioner report that free-school-meals eligibility should be urgently addressed couldn't be clearer.
As the winter approaches and the pressures on Welsh families with children are highlighted in report after report, and in this Chamber time and time again, the Government needs to set a statutory target to cut child poverty and act without delay to extend the eligibility of free school meals, and this has to happen now, as Welsh families with children face a hard and difficult winter, their living costs rising as their income is being so cruelly cut. Can the Minister give us her assurance that the Welsh Government will finally act on this? Diolch.

David Rees AC: I call on the Minister to reply to the debate.

Jane Hutt AC: Diolch yn fawr, Dirprwy Lywydd, and thank you to all the Members today who've contributed to the debate on the children's commissioner's annual report. Also, it was very important to hear from Jayne Bryant, our new Chair of the Children, Young People and Education Committee, that her committee will be considering this and considering the recommendations and the report as well. All of this is going to help inform and guide us as we move forward. Also, thank you to Jayne Bryant for acknowledging again the important independent, strong voice and role of the children's commissioner and, indeed, the recognition that the children's commissioner and the Chair of the committee of those key workers at the front line working with children and young people, and the resilience, as the children's commissioner has highlighted in the report, of our children and young people through this most challenging time for our generation and for their generations for which we have such a responsibility to listen, learn and support them.
So, it is quite clear that the Coronavirus and Me surveys were very important. I do thank Joel James for his recognition as well of the important role of the children's commissioner, and for acknowledging one specific area. It is important that you drew attention to the round-table that was undertaken and the recognition of the needs of deaf children. Although this debate is about the report, I certainly will undertake to update you on our work and response to the BSL charter, and the research that's being undertaken, of course, having responded to Mark Isherwood's debate in the last Senedd. I'm very happy to separately respond and update colleagues and Members on that issue.
Members have referred to important recommendations and areas where there is expectation that the Welsh Government needs to respond appropriately and fully to those recommendations, which we will do in due course, as I've said, by the end of November. And I think the recommendation in terms of statutory entitlements for care leavers is very key to this, as the second recommendation is calling us to
'swiftly bring forward statutory entitlements and policies for care leavers as a coherent package.'
Of course, this is something that we've been working on very closely. Just to reassure colleagues here today and Senedd Members, we are committed to legislating in this Senedd term to ensure all care leavers have an entitlement to a personal adviser up to the age of 25. And we are able to make this change via regulations under the Social Services and Well-being (Wales) Act 2014, and the timetabling and prioritisation of subordinate legislation is currently being considered for this term, and we anticipate that this will be taken forward in 2022-23. So, this is an important opportunity to reassure people. We of course remain committed to supporting care leavers to adulthood and independence, and we're keen to build on the work that was undertaken in the last Senedd term and the outcomes achieved. This is going to be about delivering on this commitment to provide care leavers with that statutory entitlement to access a personal adviser up to the age of 25.

Jane Hutt AC: And, of course, there are key issues that have been raised by Members today. Siân Gwenllian raised the important issue in terms of the recommendations around exclusions for our youngest children in the foundation phase. Just in 2019, of course, you will recall we published updated guidance, which was published back in 2015, on exclusions from schools and pupil referral units. This sets out the support schools and local authorities must put in place for all children who have been excluded from school and from pupil referral units, and it is vital that we have early support and intervention that leaves no young child excluded from education. I am absolutely clear that exclusion should only be used as a last resort. This is about underpinning the commitment that every child and young person receives an education so that they can thrive and flourish in society, and so it is that vital, important early intervention and support that is crucial, and I thank Siân Gwenllian for raising that point.
But also, it's important to recognise the issues around the youth justice blueprint, and I'm glad that I've got responsibilities, but of course responsibilities for many of these recommendations lie across the Welsh Government and are jointly shared in terms of our responsibilities. In terms of moving forward with the youth justice blueprint, we've got updated implementation plans, refreshed project delivery timescales, and they were published in consultation with our partners in March of this year, but also a further £500,000 to the blueprint programme as well—strong partnership moving forward. And it's with the Deputy Minister for Health and Social Services, Julie Morgan, and me, that we agreed to work with the Ministry of Justice to deliver an outcome that will see children in the welfare and justice systems in Wales co-located in the same building and site. We've got a joint programme. The custody project is also a joint programme. So, it's crucial that we are moving forward, and I can even respond today positively in terms of those recommendations.
Of course, there are many here; I can't answer them all, but we will do when we have our final report. Of course, recognising the issues around independent schools, the safeguarding and well-being of young people is crucially important, and we need to look at this in terms of the importance of registration of staff working in the independent school sector with the EWC, which would supplement the safeguarding provisions already in place. Of course, home education again—another recommendation of the children's commissioner. And, Deputy Llywydd, I will just say that this is again an area where we're making progress in this area. Of course, there has been an impact of COVID-19, as I said in my opening remarks, but the work, although it had to be paused in 2020, has been restarted.
Now, I do want to finally focus on the two key final points that have been made by Members. Jane Dodds gave very powerful—as she has done previously—support for the recommendation in terms of eliminating profit making from the care of looked-after children. It's one of the highest priorities for this Government. And I will say that to Gareth Davies—that is of highest priority, and we intend to remove all private profit from the care of children in relation to children's care homes.
Finally, Sioned Williams, yes, of course we see the work that we're doing in terms of free school meals not just in terms of a central pillar to our approach to tackling poverty, but also the eligibility review. I think it's good that, also, the children's commissioner recognised the importance of our free school breakfasts, where we led the way by introducing those free breakfasts in primary schools in 2004. But clearly, the important points that have been made in this debate today, covering a whole range of areas that affect our children and young people, will be vital as we move forward to fully respond to the children's commissioner's report. Can I just finally say, we have a very proud tradition of putting children's rights at the heart of our decision making? The children's commissioner's annual report is one of the ways we are held to account, and that's what's happened this afternoon, which is important for how we support children's rights as entitlements for children and young people. I do want to mention the fact that my colleague Julie Morgan, Deputy Minister for Social Services, will publish the Welsh Government's revised children's rights scheme before the end of the year and it will set out the arrangements we have in place for having due regard to the UNCRC when Ministers exercise any of their functions.
Finally, Dirprwy Lywydd, I'm sure that you will all again join me in thanking the commissioner, Sally Holland, for everything that she's done to make sure that all children know about their rights, how to access those rights and how to challenge when they're not receiving those rights. She has done this consistently during her term in office and we wish her well as she comes to the end of her term. Thank you, all, for the roles that you've played today in today's debate. Our response in November will show how seriously we take our commitment to children's rights. We respect the recommendations and the report of our children's commissioner. Diolch yn fawr.

Thank you, Minister. The proposal is to agree the motion. Does any Member object? No. The motion is therefore agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

Motion agreed in accordance with Standing Order 12.36.

That brings today's proceedings to a close.

The meeting ended at 18:16.

QNR

Questions to the First Minister

Rhianon Passmore: What action is the Welsh Government taking to enhance the employment prospects of young people aged 16 to 18 in Islwyn, who are not currently in training or work?

Mark Drakeford: We continue to support the employment prospects of young people through the young person's guarantee and the apprenticeship programme. Last week, the Minister for Economy confirmed completion of the procurement process for our exciting new programme for 16 to 18-year-olds, Jobs Growth Wales+.

Jane Dodds: Will the First Minister make a statement on the Welsh Government's approach to tackling child poverty?

Mark Drakeford: Our child poverty strategy sets out our objectives for improving outcomes for low-income families and mitigating the impact of poverty. The objectives will be delivered through our programme for government commitments to build a fairer, more equal Wales that provides children with the best start in life.

Peredur Owen Griffiths: How is the Government improving public transport for communities in South Wales East?

Mark Drakeford: Our strategy for the region is set out in the new Wales transport strategy, 'Llwybr Newydd', which aligns with the recommendations of the Lord Burns commission. Work has already commenced on the 58 recommendations, ranging from improvement of the south Wales main line to local measures.